Where do I start?
Mar 18th 2021, 8:18 pm
#16
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,096
Re: Where do I start?
Thanks for reply, as for as experience goes I have just a little more than nothing, but my idea is based on this being a new life challenge and yes I am aware the chance of failure is high, but it is something I have to get out of my system. I have had my own ecommmerce business for over 14 years and it's time for me to bite the bullet and see if I have what it takes.
I may have misused the term 'self-sufficent', maybe I should replace that with 'not reliant on the state' or 'master of my own destiny. I want to live off-grid and produce the majority of my own food, electricity, and if possible own heating.
I will be on my own so realize that this makes the process harder but also that I will need less space as this is more manageable. I do realize I will need to support the project with bought goods.
I do understand that water is critical and in addition to that, the location is important. No point trying to grow root veg on rocks. I had (maybe wrongly) assumed that any well water for a vineyard would be sufficient for my needs. Although I had planned on adding rainwater catchment. Am I wrong or missing something?
Would the percentage of land for buildings also cover structures such as polytunnels? Where would I find regulations covering this?
At the same time where would I check local laws regarding the removal of fruit trees and vines?
I had missed the 'summer' nature of the property so may expand my search a little bit but when it comes to winterization do you have any suggestions?
What I need to know is what ongoing costs are likely to be. For example, if I have to pay for water, how much is this likely to be? Do I need a TV license? How is the annual council tax calculated? and costs of anything else that I may have missed?
I am sure there are many more questions to answer, but I will factor in the answers to these first and then see where that takes me.
Many thanks again
I may have misused the term 'self-sufficent', maybe I should replace that with 'not reliant on the state' or 'master of my own destiny. I want to live off-grid and produce the majority of my own food, electricity, and if possible own heating.
I will be on my own so realize that this makes the process harder but also that I will need less space as this is more manageable. I do realize I will need to support the project with bought goods.
I do understand that water is critical and in addition to that, the location is important. No point trying to grow root veg on rocks. I had (maybe wrongly) assumed that any well water for a vineyard would be sufficient for my needs. Although I had planned on adding rainwater catchment. Am I wrong or missing something?
Would the percentage of land for buildings also cover structures such as polytunnels? Where would I find regulations covering this?
At the same time where would I check local laws regarding the removal of fruit trees and vines?
I had missed the 'summer' nature of the property so may expand my search a little bit but when it comes to winterization do you have any suggestions?
What I need to know is what ongoing costs are likely to be. For example, if I have to pay for water, how much is this likely to be? Do I need a TV license? How is the annual council tax calculated? and costs of anything else that I may have missed?
I am sure there are many more questions to answer, but I will factor in the answers to these first and then see where that takes me.
Many thanks again
Poly tunnels as temporary structures are generally outside the building regs depending upon other local restrictions such as National parks etc. You can only find this out once you start looking for properties and have a specific property or area in mind.
Producing your own electricity will still need a grid connection unless you want to be in the dark after sunset and running a freezer and washing machine is fraught with only solar. Battery storage is just too expensive at the moment but luckily very very few wine houses or rural properties are without grid connection.
Winterization starts with making sure any pipes don't freeze and goes up to insulating enough that heating is not required until the temp drops below say -10deg.. with this you either invest up front for insulation or pay annually for big heating bills, or of course somewhere between the two
Mar 18th 2021, 8:31 pm
#17
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Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near Esztergom
Posts: 923
Re: Where do I start?
I had a holiday home in Alsopahok 5 km away from Héviz and Keszthely for many years - moved near Esztergom to be nearer to my Hungarian girlfriend's family in Budapest (we were both over 60 when we met ...) and there are many foreigners there - Austrians, Germans and Swiss of course but also people from Britain, the Netherlands and Ukraine.
We often walked our dog on the street through the vineyards and I still remember when the people living there proudly put up their address plates with house numbers a few years ago.
There are similar places/villages like this, maybe you should look at some?
Keszthely/Hévíz has the advantage of the big thermal lake and also being near the Balaton, lots of foreigners so German and even English is spoken by many. The infrastructure is good - there's a Tesco, Interspar, Aldi, Lidl, Obi for tools and many specialised shops.
I really recommend a visit, maybe stay in a spa hotel in Hévíz as soon as it will be possible and have a look around.
We often walked our dog on the street through the vineyards and I still remember when the people living there proudly put up their address plates with house numbers a few years ago.
There are similar places/villages like this, maybe you should look at some?
Keszthely/Hévíz has the advantage of the big thermal lake and also being near the Balaton, lots of foreigners so German and even English is spoken by many. The infrastructure is good - there's a Tesco, Interspar, Aldi, Lidl, Obi for tools and many specialised shops.
I really recommend a visit, maybe stay in a spa hotel in Hévíz as soon as it will be possible and have a look around.
Mar 18th 2021, 9:32 pm
#18
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: North East Hungary......for now
Posts: 646
Re: Where do I start?
I'll throw my twopenneth in here.
We bought a small weekend house up in the hills above Eger about 16 years ago. 700m2 plot, 2.5km up a dirt track through a forest with about a dozen fruit trees. Our idea was similar to yours...grow our own veg, keep some chickens, buy a Trabant and have a little income from doing a few side projects.
We moved here 13 years ago and from there on it all went belly up! Bureaucracy is a nightmare and even hated by most Hungarians. Many officials don't know their backsides from their elbows and give misleading or completely incorrect information. Our side projects didn't pan out and we started working as English teachers, which we're still doing now. The soil in our garden proved unsuitable for growing and the neighbours said it was not practical to drill a well.
We found that although many of the living costs are much cheaper here, many other things are the same price or even more expensive than in the UK. Don't underestimate how much money you will need to get by.
We still have the little house that we first bought but have lived in 2 other villages since. The first being Sirok, near Eger. We found most of the locals there to be pretty friendly and the regulars in the local bar were more than happy to help me with my Hungarian. 7 years ago we moved from there to another village 8km away. The locals here don't seem quite as friendly or open but we have very good neighbours and quite a few friends. Our house is more than 100 years old and made of vályog (similar to adobe). We heat the place using 2 gas convection heaters that were already installed and a wood-burning stove in the living room and use about 4 cubic metres of mixed hardwood a year. We paid 25,000 forints per cubic metre for it this year, delivered in 1m lengths. Here a cubic metre isn't 1mx1mx1m. It's usually a forest cubic metre which is 1mx1mx1.7m! We then paid a local to cut it down into 25cm pieces and I then chopped it up and stacked it.
Our garden here is 35mx17m which is plenty large enough for us to grow our own veg but we don't really bother nowadays due to work commitments.
As for phones and internet, we've been with Vodafone since we moved here. We now pay about 11,000ft per month with unlimited calls and texts throughout Europe, including the UK and unlimited mobile data and we find reception pretty good wherever we go locally.
Safety and security is much better here. Crime is very low and I don't worry if I forget to lock my car at night. Do I regret moving here? No....but.....not speaking enough Hungarian is getting me down. I can get by on a daily basis but I wish I could speak better. My wife is British/Hungarian so she speaks fluently and I speak English all day in my job so don't get too many opportunities to practice Hungarian, especially in the last 12 months. Also, going back to the bureaucracy, it really can be a pain trying to get some things done.
Hope this helps a little,
Paul
We bought a small weekend house up in the hills above Eger about 16 years ago. 700m2 plot, 2.5km up a dirt track through a forest with about a dozen fruit trees. Our idea was similar to yours...grow our own veg, keep some chickens, buy a Trabant and have a little income from doing a few side projects.
We moved here 13 years ago and from there on it all went belly up! Bureaucracy is a nightmare and even hated by most Hungarians. Many officials don't know their backsides from their elbows and give misleading or completely incorrect information. Our side projects didn't pan out and we started working as English teachers, which we're still doing now. The soil in our garden proved unsuitable for growing and the neighbours said it was not practical to drill a well.
We found that although many of the living costs are much cheaper here, many other things are the same price or even more expensive than in the UK. Don't underestimate how much money you will need to get by.
We still have the little house that we first bought but have lived in 2 other villages since. The first being Sirok, near Eger. We found most of the locals there to be pretty friendly and the regulars in the local bar were more than happy to help me with my Hungarian. 7 years ago we moved from there to another village 8km away. The locals here don't seem quite as friendly or open but we have very good neighbours and quite a few friends. Our house is more than 100 years old and made of vályog (similar to adobe). We heat the place using 2 gas convection heaters that were already installed and a wood-burning stove in the living room and use about 4 cubic metres of mixed hardwood a year. We paid 25,000 forints per cubic metre for it this year, delivered in 1m lengths. Here a cubic metre isn't 1mx1mx1m. It's usually a forest cubic metre which is 1mx1mx1.7m! We then paid a local to cut it down into 25cm pieces and I then chopped it up and stacked it.
Our garden here is 35mx17m which is plenty large enough for us to grow our own veg but we don't really bother nowadays due to work commitments.
As for phones and internet, we've been with Vodafone since we moved here. We now pay about 11,000ft per month with unlimited calls and texts throughout Europe, including the UK and unlimited mobile data and we find reception pretty good wherever we go locally.
Safety and security is much better here. Crime is very low and I don't worry if I forget to lock my car at night. Do I regret moving here? No....but.....not speaking enough Hungarian is getting me down. I can get by on a daily basis but I wish I could speak better. My wife is British/Hungarian so she speaks fluently and I speak English all day in my job so don't get too many opportunities to practice Hungarian, especially in the last 12 months. Also, going back to the bureaucracy, it really can be a pain trying to get some things done.
Hope this helps a little,
Paul
Mar 20th 2021, 10:01 am
#19
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Re: Where do I start?
As you say water is critical fro growing veggies, but not for vines and very few vineyards irrigate or indeed have water on site, one of the reasons for having vineyards in a country where summers can be hot and dry. Rain water catchment is difficult when you can get 8 weeks with no rain and temps. at 30deg.+. My neighbour has a poly tunnel of about 250m2 in which he grows peppers and toms. for the local farmers market. With a drip feed watering system he uses about 2000lts or more of water a day in the summer. Even if you scale this down to self sufficiency plus a bit to pay for taxes, NI and other essentials that is still going to be about 1000ltrs a day in the height of the summer once you add in some fruit trees, chicken and domestic needs. It will need a very good dug well or more probably a drilled well to secure this water usage. It is generally reckoned that for market gardening a well is needed as town water will be too expensive.
Poly tunnels as temporary structures are generally outside the building regs depending upon other local restrictions such as National parks etc. You can only find this out once you start looking for properties and have a specific property or area in mind.
Producing your own electricity will still need a grid connection unless you want to be in the dark after sunset and running a freezer and washing machine is fraught with only solar. Battery storage is just too expensive at the moment but luckily very very few wine houses or rural properties are without grid connection.
Winterization starts with making sure any pipes don't freeze and goes up to insulating enough that heating is not required until the temp drops below say -10deg.. with this you either invest up front for insulation or pay annually for big heating bills, or of course somewhere between the two
Poly tunnels as temporary structures are generally outside the building regs depending upon other local restrictions such as National parks etc. You can only find this out once you start looking for properties and have a specific property or area in mind.
Producing your own electricity will still need a grid connection unless you want to be in the dark after sunset and running a freezer and washing machine is fraught with only solar. Battery storage is just too expensive at the moment but luckily very very few wine houses or rural properties are without grid connection.
Winterization starts with making sure any pipes don't freeze and goes up to insulating enough that heating is not required until the temp drops below say -10deg.. with this you either invest up front for insulation or pay annually for big heating bills, or of course somewhere between the two
I think I had come to same conclusion re electricity.
Witerization also bumped up the list of priorities.
Thanks again
Mar 20th 2021, 10:03 am
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Re: Where do I start?
I had a holiday home in Alsopahok 5 km away from Héviz and Keszthely for many years - moved near Esztergom to be nearer to my Hungarian girlfriend's family in Budapest (we were both over 60 when we met ...) and there are many foreigners there - Austrians, Germans and Swiss of course but also people from Britain, the Netherlands and Ukraine.
We often walked our dog on the street through the vineyards and I still remember when the people living there proudly put up their address plates with house numbers a few years ago.
There are similar places/villages like this, maybe you should look at some?
Keszthely/Hévíz has the advantage of the big thermal lake and also being near the Balaton, lots of foreigners so German and even English is spoken by many. The infrastructure is good - there's a Tesco, Interspar, Aldi, Lidl, Obi for tools and many specialised shops.
I really recommend a visit, maybe stay in a spa hotel in Hévíz as soon as it will be possible and have a look around.
We often walked our dog on the street through the vineyards and I still remember when the people living there proudly put up their address plates with house numbers a few years ago.
There are similar places/villages like this, maybe you should look at some?
Keszthely/Hévíz has the advantage of the big thermal lake and also being near the Balaton, lots of foreigners so German and even English is spoken by many. The infrastructure is good - there's a Tesco, Interspar, Aldi, Lidl, Obi for tools and many specialised shops.
I really recommend a visit, maybe stay in a spa hotel in Hévíz as soon as it will be possible and have a look around.
Thanks again
Mar 20th 2021, 10:11 am
#21
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Re: Where do I start?
I'll throw my twopenneth in here.
We bought a small weekend house up in the hills above Eger about 16 years ago. 700m2 plot, 2.5km up a dirt track through a forest with about a dozen fruit trees. Our idea was similar to yours...grow our own veg, keep some chickens, buy a Trabant and have a little income from doing a few side projects.
We moved here 13 years ago and from there on it all went belly up! Bureaucracy is a nightmare and even hated by most Hungarians. Many officials don't know their backsides from their elbows and give misleading or completely incorrect information. Our side projects didn't pan out and we started working as English teachers, which we're still doing now. The soil in our garden proved unsuitable for growing and the neighbours said it was not practical to drill a well.
We found that although many of the living costs are much cheaper here, many other things are the same price or even more expensive than in the UK. Don't underestimate how much money you will need to get by.
We still have the little house that we first bought but have lived in 2 other villages since. The first being Sirok, near Eger. We found most of the locals there to be pretty friendly and the regulars in the local bar were more than happy to help me with my Hungarian. 7 years ago we moved from there to another village 8km away. The locals here don't seem quite as friendly or open but we have very good neighbours and quite a few friends. Our house is more than 100 years old and made of vályog (similar to adobe). We heat the place using 2 gas convection heaters that were already installed and a wood-burning stove in the living room and use about 4 cubic metres of mixed hardwood a year. We paid 25,000 forints per cubic metre for it this year, delivered in 1m lengths. Here a cubic metre isn't 1mx1mx1m. It's usually a forest cubic metre which is 1mx1mx1.7m! We then paid a local to cut it down into 25cm pieces and I then chopped it up and stacked it.
Our garden here is 35mx17m which is plenty large enough for us to grow our own veg but we don't really bother nowadays due to work commitments.
As for phones and internet, we've been with Vodafone since we moved here. We now pay about 11,000ft per month with unlimited calls and texts throughout Europe, including the UK and unlimited mobile data and we find reception pretty good wherever we go locally.
Safety and security is much better here. Crime is very low and I don't worry if I forget to lock my car at night. Do I regret moving here? No....but.....not speaking enough Hungarian is getting me down. I can get by on a daily basis but I wish I could speak better. My wife is British/Hungarian so she speaks fluently and I speak English all day in my job so don't get too many opportunities to practice Hungarian, especially in the last 12 months. Also, going back to the bureaucracy, it really can be a pain trying to get some things done.
Hope this helps a little,
Paul
We bought a small weekend house up in the hills above Eger about 16 years ago. 700m2 plot, 2.5km up a dirt track through a forest with about a dozen fruit trees. Our idea was similar to yours...grow our own veg, keep some chickens, buy a Trabant and have a little income from doing a few side projects.
We moved here 13 years ago and from there on it all went belly up! Bureaucracy is a nightmare and even hated by most Hungarians. Many officials don't know their backsides from their elbows and give misleading or completely incorrect information. Our side projects didn't pan out and we started working as English teachers, which we're still doing now. The soil in our garden proved unsuitable for growing and the neighbours said it was not practical to drill a well.
We found that although many of the living costs are much cheaper here, many other things are the same price or even more expensive than in the UK. Don't underestimate how much money you will need to get by.
We still have the little house that we first bought but have lived in 2 other villages since. The first being Sirok, near Eger. We found most of the locals there to be pretty friendly and the regulars in the local bar were more than happy to help me with my Hungarian. 7 years ago we moved from there to another village 8km away. The locals here don't seem quite as friendly or open but we have very good neighbours and quite a few friends. Our house is more than 100 years old and made of vályog (similar to adobe). We heat the place using 2 gas convection heaters that were already installed and a wood-burning stove in the living room and use about 4 cubic metres of mixed hardwood a year. We paid 25,000 forints per cubic metre for it this year, delivered in 1m lengths. Here a cubic metre isn't 1mx1mx1m. It's usually a forest cubic metre which is 1mx1mx1.7m! We then paid a local to cut it down into 25cm pieces and I then chopped it up and stacked it.
Our garden here is 35mx17m which is plenty large enough for us to grow our own veg but we don't really bother nowadays due to work commitments.
As for phones and internet, we've been with Vodafone since we moved here. We now pay about 11,000ft per month with unlimited calls and texts throughout Europe, including the UK and unlimited mobile data and we find reception pretty good wherever we go locally.
Safety and security is much better here. Crime is very low and I don't worry if I forget to lock my car at night. Do I regret moving here? No....but.....not speaking enough Hungarian is getting me down. I can get by on a daily basis but I wish I could speak better. My wife is British/Hungarian so she speaks fluently and I speak English all day in my job so don't get too many opportunities to practice Hungarian, especially in the last 12 months. Also, going back to the bureaucracy, it really can be a pain trying to get some things done.
Hope this helps a little,
Paul
I had hoped to get away from bureaucracy as much as possible and so this is a real downer. Without getting into personal details can you give me examples of what you found challenging?
The language issue does appear to raise its head unless regardless of having a translator to hand or not, so I guess this comes down to my ability to learn new languages. With this in mind, I will have a go at learning Hungarian before I bite the bullet.
Thanks again
Mar 20th 2021, 11:37 am
#22
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near Esztergom
Posts: 923
Re: Where do I start?
Seems this was lost:
If you want to get really good wines you might look for a place north of the Balaton like Badacsony or one of the other (extinct of course ...) volcanoes. The soil there seems to be good for grapes.
Your idea of making a list of things you need/have to look at is great - even necessary in a way.
Re electricity:
Many houses are connected to the grid on one phase only, max current maybe 20 A.
That means if you try to run two machines like a washing machine, dishwasher or dryer - or just a water boiler you run a risk there.
Wish you the best!
Of course the pandemic has to be finished first ...
If you want to get really good wines you might look for a place north of the Balaton like Badacsony or one of the other (extinct of course ...) volcanoes. The soil there seems to be good for grapes.
Your idea of making a list of things you need/have to look at is great - even necessary in a way.
Re electricity:
Many houses are connected to the grid on one phase only, max current maybe 20 A.
That means if you try to run two machines like a washing machine, dishwasher or dryer - or just a water boiler you run a risk there.
Wish you the best!
Of course the pandemic has to be finished first ...
Mar 22nd 2021, 6:50 pm
#23
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 8
Peter in Hungary..
Peter you seem a fine of all knowledge, my wife who is Hungary and my son who has a dual passport with myself are think of moving to Hungary we are in the process of looking for houses in zalakaros South of Lake balaton.. Can I bend your ear about a few things
Mar 22nd 2021, 8:32 pm
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,096
Re: Peter in Hungary..
No problem, either here in the 'open air' or as a private message.
Mar 22nd 2021, 10:32 pm
#25
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 8
Re: Where do I start?
Hi Peter in Hungary yes happy to private message you.. Don't seem to be able to on this site are you on messenger <snip>.. Have a few questions for you
Last edited by christmasoompa; Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:20 pm. Reason: Removed your name - BE is a public forum so always best to keep your personal details off it!
Mar 23rd 2021, 7:05 am
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,096
Re: Where do I start?
If you log in to this site and then click on my name at the top left corner of this message you will get a drop down menu that gives the option to send me a private message.and I will get a notification next time I log in.
Last edited by christmasoompa; Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:20 pm. Reason: Removed name from quote
Mar 23rd 2021, 12:56 pm
#27
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: North East Hungary......for now
Posts: 646
Re: Where do I start?
Thanks for this. All taken on board.
I had hoped to get away from bureaucracy as much as possible and so this is a real downer. Without getting into personal details can you give me examples of what you found challenging?
The language issue does appear to raise its head unless regardless of having a translator to hand or not, so I guess this comes down to my ability to learn new languages. With this in mind, I will have a go at learning Hungarian before I bite the bullet.
Thanks again
I had hoped to get away from bureaucracy as much as possible and so this is a real downer. Without getting into personal details can you give me examples of what you found challenging?
The language issue does appear to raise its head unless regardless of having a translator to hand or not, so I guess this comes down to my ability to learn new languages. With this in mind, I will have a go at learning Hungarian before I bite the bullet.
Thanks again
Just a couple of examples:
We bought a motorbike, went to the office to register it in my name, was told to get an eredetivizsga, returned 2 days later to the same woman who told us that we couldn't register it as we weren't Hungarian. My wife got rather angry with her and we didn't leave until the bike was in my wife's name.
We've been trying to help a local couple get the TAJ kártyas. Each time we go to the office we are told something different by the woman there. Yet when my wife phones up she speaks to a different woman who knows the correct information.
There have been many occasions where one person says one thing and another, often in the same office, says something else.
Mar 23rd 2021, 1:18 pm
#28
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Re: Where do I start?
Hi,
Just a couple of examples:
We bought a motorbike, went to the office to register it in my name, was told to get an eredetivizsga, returned 2 days later to the same woman who told us that we couldn't register it as we weren't Hungarian. My wife got rather angry with her and we didn't leave until the bike was in my wife's name.
We've been trying to help a local couple get the TAJ kártyas. Each time we go to the office we are told something different by the woman there. Yet when my wife phones up she speaks to a different woman who knows the correct information.
There have been many occasions where one person says one thing and another, often in the same office, says something else.
Just a couple of examples:
We bought a motorbike, went to the office to register it in my name, was told to get an eredetivizsga, returned 2 days later to the same woman who told us that we couldn't register it as we weren't Hungarian. My wife got rather angry with her and we didn't leave until the bike was in my wife's name.
We've been trying to help a local couple get the TAJ kártyas. Each time we go to the office we are told something different by the woman there. Yet when my wife phones up she speaks to a different woman who knows the correct information.
There have been many occasions where one person says one thing and another, often in the same office, says something else.
