joolesmck

Hi everyone - great to have found this forum. Living in Malta I miss the GREEN! - Taking the plunge to investigate Hungary (mid July) The 'dream' of owning a winehouse or 2? One to live and one to Holiday let out? - Is this feasible? Or; am I in cloud cuckoo land? Which areas would be recommended for good season of potential clients?

duztee

Not Here! :-)

joolesmck

Hi Duztee - so you don't think that living (hopefully sustainably) will work in Hungary?

FenTiger

I don't currently live in Hungary but my wife is Hungarian and we have visited several times over the years. Hungary is not France or Spain, it's a very different country. I'm sure plenty of members of this forum will be replying to your post.
Location - everyone here has their own favourite area.
Letting out - as per above Hungary is not France or Spain so I would ensure my main income was sufficient not to be drained by lack of bookings income. Your letting out property might only be occupied for a couple of weeks throughout the whole year!!!
Quite a few members on here are married or partnered to Hungarians and like myself it's helped to see the real Hungary and some good advice about living in Hungary and running a business, etc.
Don't give up though because as most members on here say .... they love it here really!

joolesmck

Thank you FenTiger - Fortunately I am in the position not to have to rely on the income - merely have it an additional 'sense of purpose!' Looking long term - I can see Hungary growing in popularity. Anywhoo - the first visit is booked!

Peter_in_Hungary

The tourist let season is short here and the ROI will be terrible when you count the purchase price and renovation costs. We had a couple of tourist lets which we now let as permanent residences. A better return and less effort, but the units are located in places where we could get residential lets. The income is taxable and the expenses are only deductible in the year of the spend - so renovation costs can only be accounted for in that year and not carried over - unless you are a company and that's another bag of worms.

IMO Its is very difficult to buy a place whilst on holiday. 2-3-weeks is just not long enough to make a valid decision and get it right. Looking in the holiday season can be fraught, many of the villages near the Balaton are empty from mid September, I know a couple of villages that have just 4 - 5 houses permanently occupied. Maybe no issue if you just want a holiday home but not so good if you want permanency at some time. (we took 6 months to find our place!)

Be cautious when dealing with estate agents, there is not the consumer protection and and trading standards that is enjoyed in the UK. I don't know what it's like in Malta but here the estate agents work for their profit line first and the purchaser is the cash cow - especially if that purchaser is a foreigner. Property here can take years to sell and you can not expect to recover the cost of renovations if you decide to sell after a few years. Hungarys housing market is (with the exception of Budapest) in a state of over supply. E.g. my son bought a house near Székesféhervár an area of good employment and within commuting distance of Budapest and the house had been empty for 8-10 years.

Like anywhere some areas are fashionable and others not, which will affect the price, as a foreigner it will be difficult to know if the price offered is valid, also there are several types of construction here and I would advise to avoid abobe aka mud brick aka vályogtégla, otherwise you can get brick or stone construction which are a much better options than adobe but the quality of construction (and foundations) has to be accounted.

When looking around the south shore of the Balaton don't forget the north shore, especially the Balaton Uplands National Park which IMO has much better scenery than the south shore

Having said that lot we like it here and when we go back to the UK to visit we always decide we are glad we live here!

joolesmck

Hi Peter,

Many thanks - not planning to buy on first visit :-) Just to get a feel for the place. Malta is probably the worst place for -UK comparison (hee hee - especially in our completely unregulated Real Estate market!!)

My idea is to get a little place for me - with some decent land - 1500sqm or so; and to have a little place to rent out. I will certainly investigate the North Shore.

scrubbedexpat0105

If you're planning on living in Hungary permanently and want to get a feel for the place, rent somewhere to stay yourself for three months in the winter.

Szeged

In terms of Holiday/Tourist Let, I would definitely investigate the area's history, tourism situation and costs thoroughly. Examples:

In Algyő (near Szeged, Csongrad County) MOL (the petrol/oil company) drilled oil in Algyő in 1965. Over the years and following decades this brought in thousands of workers to Algyő. Szeged prospered from this. Last year I was speaking to a Hungarian pub owner in Algyő, who had spent 14 years in America, who was advised by his friends to buy this pub because "there are thousand of people living and working in Algyő. You will make a nice business and profit". So he bought the pub. A few years later only, people (workers) were leaving by the thousands because the oil production slowed down and therefore the work. Now with today's oil situation.......

Similar story with Miskolc. Once a thriving industrial place....... Now property prices are very low. Kecskemét (nice farmlands) has a similar story. I know someone who was selling a property for 10,000 GBP but ended up selling for 7,000 GBP because they could not wait years for a sale. Kecskemét was only rescued by the Mercedes factory.

In Szeged (a university city) people rent out in the summer because of the weather and festivals and events, but the real money is in renting out to Eramus students for example. Pécs has a similar situation. Even with this guaranteed income, there is not much profit to be had. It might pay the bills on your second home, but it would not really pay for a holiday. You would need 3 properties for that. Hence why many foreigners who buy property in Szeged, Miskolc and so on tend to buy, renovate and sell within 2 or 3 years to expand their fortune.

With all that said, my number one advice is: Have a Hungarian by your side (friend, paid translator, landlord, someone off the street, etc) otherwise you will more than likely get ripped off somewhere along the line and have communication problems where the only words of Hungarian you will learn are Boszd Meg!

Dealing with builders who do not speak English will be a challenge if you have no Hungarian at your side. Finding good builders in general (i.e. where to start to look for one) can be a challenge if you do not know anyone in Hungary. Look at other forums relating to Budapest for example and two of the main questions asked are "recommendations for a good builder" and "where can I find.....service?".

Check the housing market too, not just in terms of for sale prices but also in terms of costs (new roof, materials, rental tax, monthly maintenance fees, cost of living, etc). Many people buy property blindly (usually because they like its cheap property price) but are then stunned by monthly maintenance fees, bills, renovation costs, etc.

Many also do not consider the tenant. They buy on their preferences rather than the tenants preferences. This could be a simple case of installing a shower because you prefer a shower, when your tenants would prefer a bath. And vice versa. A cost here is the water costs, paid by the unit. A 5 minute shower versus one bath tub full of water. Cupboard space is another thing to consider. A bed and locker do not cut it anymore for a tourist (they bring their kitchen sink these days!). Flights of stairs are another problem/consideration. These are general considerations of course.

Peter_in_Hungary

As an after thought - the title of the post talks about 'off grid'. Most of the wine houses will have electricity unless they are really at the back of nowhere, water however is less likely and IMO more important. Most will have a rain water tank and there is often a spring nearby (at least in my area) but the aggravation of having to carry in water needs careful thinking about. Sometimes there is a well nearby but if it is a dug well (about 90cm dia. and perhaps anything up to 30M deep) it can't be guaranteed to be potable quality. (some springs are potable quality and these are tested frequently.

If there is no piped water and you will not be able to do holiday lets unless you can show a clean water supply, which means if it is a private supply (a well) having it tested annually.