British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Hungary (https://britishexpats.com/forum/hungary-140/)
-   -   Transition period ends, some clarification documents (https://britishexpats.com/forum/hungary-140/transition-period-ends-some-clarification-documents-936340/)

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 1st 2021 7:28 pm

Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Now the transition period has ended uk.gov has issued a load of documents that may be of interest or clarify future procedures
If you subscribe to the uk.gov Brexit emails you will probably have read these in detail already (and got totally bored) - but seriously some of it may be important so it might be worth skimming the headings.
Living in Hungary - GOV.UK
Healthcare for UK nationals living in Hungary - GOV.UK
Living in Europe - GOV.UK

jetsam1 Jan 2nd 2021 4:11 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Just to add, I had an appointment in the Szeged Immigration Office earlier this month. At the time they told me they had no further information as to what might be coming in terms of paperwork and applications required. I have a Registration Card with no expiry date and they told me that was the highest level registration they could offer me at that time.

The HR department of my employer (Multi National) have said that there is going to be a three year grace period for us to whatever it is we will need to do in the end.

Anyway at least as the WA is valid after this deal, I can take my life off hold.

Benny Kovacs Jan 3rd 2021 9:57 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12952746)
The HR department of my employer (Multi National) have said that there is going to be a three year grace period for us to whatever it is we will need to do in the end.

The way I understand it is that everything stays the same for now across the EU until cards and things need renewing and then we have to re-apply but will need whatever checks/documents relevant countries require and will be processed the same as any other 3rd country immigrant.

If you are married to an EU Citizen and subsequently divorce this needs to be notified to whoever needs be as your status might be affected.

Checks will be more thorough and fingerprints taken etc.

Expatrick Jan 3rd 2021 10:54 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
We updated to unlimited permanent residency cards last month.

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 3rd 2021 11:23 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Benny Kovacs (Post 12952953)
The way I understand it is that everything stays the same for now across the EU until cards and things need renewing and then we have to re-apply but will need whatever checks/documents relevant countries require and will be processed the same as any other 3rd country immigrant.

If you are married to an EU Citizen and subsequently divorce this needs to be notified to whoever needs be as your status might be affected.

Checks will be more thorough and fingerprints taken etc.

If you can update to unlimited permanent residency as Expatrick did then this would be good idea. If you leave it until your current card runs out then surely you will not be re-applying but renewing

At the moment the mood music from the Hungarian state is one of helping Brits already here, give it a few years down the line this may revert to being the same as any other 3rd country. The message from the Hungarian state since Brexit started has been get residency sorted ASAP (+ driving licences etc.)

Expatrick Jan 3rd 2021 11:29 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12952966)
If you can update to unlimited permanent residency as Expatrick did then this would be good idea. If you leave it until your current card runs out then surely you will not be re-applying but renewing

At the moment the mood music from the Hungarian state is one of helping Brits already here, give it a few years down the line this may revert to being the same as any other 3rd country. The message from the Hungarian state since Brexit started has been get residency sorted ASAP (+ driving licences etc.)

The Hungarian who assisted (& accompanied) our application said that the Government agencies are falling over themselves to help. Interestingly we initially went to the immigration office in Buda which was rammed with all nationalities but then redirected to another office in Pest which was almost empty. Dealt with quickly & efficiently by a super official.

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 4:46 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12952968)
The Hungarian who assisted (& accompanied) our application said that the Government agencies are falling over themselves to help. Interestingly we initially went to the immigration office in Buda which was rammed with all nationalities but then redirected to another office in Pest which was almost empty. Dealt with quickly & efficiently by a super official.

Yep in Szeged they were very helpful and went to check for any extra information that they could give me. I was quite surprised compared to 2014 where the staff at the Budapest office made my Hungarian wife cry.

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 5:05 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
I keep being told that as I have young Hungarian children and a Hungarian wife there is no scenario where the government would kick me out. I am wondering if there will be some kind of extra paperwork?

Otherwise dual nationality is the aim? Maybe some language teachers might actually decide to do Hungarian as a foreign language lessons! :blink:

Expatrick Jan 3rd 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953128)
I keep being told that as I have young Hungarian children and a Hungarian wife there is no scenario where the government would kick me out. I am wondering if there will be some kind of extra paperwork?

Otherwise dual nationality is the aim? Maybe some language teachers might actually decide to do Hungarian as a foreign language lessons! :blink:

Why not just do the permanent residency thing?

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 5:26 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12953150)
Why not just do the permanent residency thing?

As far as I am aware I already have that? I was presuming I would need a new card, maybe photographic but as I was still an EU citizen I could not have anything of a higher level.

My card was issued in 2014 and has no expiry date so I can only assume that is a permanent residency card.

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 3rd 2021 5:34 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953128)
I keep being told that as I have young Hungarian children and a Hungarian wife there is no scenario where the government would kick me out. I am wondering if there will be some kind of extra paperwork?

Otherwise dual nationality is the aim? Maybe some language teachers might actually decide to do Hungarian as a foreign language lessons! :blink:

If you are going for dual nationality and have a Hungarian wife and children then the 'simplified nationality process' is available to you - which is less onerous in terms of language demands and some other things and I'm not sure how long you need to have been resident here, but I think that you need to have been married (to the Hungarian) for 10 years and still be together to apply.

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 5:35 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12953156)
If you are going for dual nationality and have a Hungarian wife and children then the 'simplified nationality process' is available to you - which is less onerous in terms of language demands and some other things and I'm not sure how long you need to have been resident here, but I think that you need to have been married (to the Hungarian) for 10 years and still be together to apply.

Not quite there then! Only 7 years......

Expatrick Jan 3rd 2021 5:40 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953152)
As far as I am aware I already have that? I was presuming I would need a new card, maybe photographic but as I was still an EU citizen I could not have anything of a higher level.

My card was issued in 2014 and has no expiry date so I can only assume that is a permanent residency card.

No, what you have is the REGISZTRÁCIÓS IGAZOLÁS. The PR card is a photographic card, thus,
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...724582e331.jpg

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 5:50 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12953164)
No, what you have is the REGISZTRÁCIÓS IGAZOLÁS. The PR card is a photographic card, thus,
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...724582e331.jpg

OK. I asked about that.................... I think as usual then the normal crossed wires.

Will need to look into it. Actually it will be easier as I have a full audited formal year of payslips rather than weird self employed crazyness. That is where I thought I would have a problem.

OK, so they let you do this straight away? Just the forms etc? Did you specifically ask for this and was there any specific information they were wanting?

Oh well as usual it can never be simple.

Expatrick Jan 3rd 2021 5:57 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953170)
OK. I asked about that.................... I think as usual then the normal crossed wires.

Will need to look into it. Actually it will be easier as I have a full audited formal year of payslips rather than weird self employed crazyness. That is where I thought I would have a problem.

OK, so they let you do this straight away? Just the forms etc? Did you specifically ask for this and was there any specific information they were wanting?

You qualify after 5 years lawful residence. A few forms*, proof of income (which you seem to have), house purchase contract, copy of passport, registration (as above) & address card, TAJ card, tax card, photos attached to application forms. Take everything to the interview!

* We used a facilitator, but with a Hungarian wife you won't need one. Firms converted to PDF and then submitted on line.

Decision & card arrived after about 60 days.

jetsam1 Jan 3rd 2021 6:01 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 12953176)
You qualify after 5 years lawful residence. A few forms*, proof of income (which you seem to have), house purchase contract, copy of passport, registration (as above) & address card, TAJ card, tax card, photos attached to application forms. Take everything to the interview!

* We used a facilitator, but with a Hungarian wife you won't need one. Firms converted to PDF and then submitted on line.

Had all of that with me, including forms filled in but they said they could not give me anything more than what I already have. Maybe now though it may be different. I thought Szeged was the better between it and Kecskemét as it is a big University city.........

I suppose I am just a bit over tired with jumping through hoops for the company, family and everyone else this year...... I didn't see anything about submitting online? But then my wife insisted I go in person as she doesn't trust anyone in a government office!!

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 4th 2021 7:38 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953179)
Had all of that with me, including forms filled in but they said they could not give me anything more than what I already have. Maybe now though it may be different.!

It is different now. From Living in Hungary I quoted above under the Visas and residency section there is

"If you were legally resident in Hungary before 1 January 2021, you need to apply for a new residency document. You must apply by 31 December 2021 at your local National Directorate General for Aliens Policing (Országos Idegenrendészeti Főigazgatóság)."

We were not able to apply for the new document until the transition period ended and now we have until Dec. 2021.
Check out the relevant section for more info.

As I understand matters the change is because we have residency documents applicable to EU citizens and we need residency documents as given to 3rd country nationals.

hobgoblins Jan 4th 2021 9:16 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12953746)
It is different now. From Living in Hungary I quoted above under the Visas and residency section there is

"If you were legally resident in Hungary before 1 January 2021, you need to apply for a new residency document. You must apply by 31 December 2021 at your local National Directorate General for Aliens Policing (Országos Idegenrendészeti Főigazgatóság)."

We were not able to apply for the new document until the transition period ended and now we have until Dec. 2021.
Check out the relevant section for more info.

As I understand matters the change is because we have residency documents applicable to EU citizens and we need residency documents as given to 3rd country nationals.

By documents, do you mean the REGISZTRÁCIÓS IGAZOLÁS card will need to be changed over ?

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 5th 2021 10:57 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by hobgoblins (Post 12953803)
By documents, do you mean the REGISZTRÁCIÓS IGAZOLÁS card will need to be changed over ?

I believe it is the residence card that gets changed. I am a bit out of this game because I don't have a residence card because my status here is as a "settled foreigner" and I have an "ID Card For Foreigners", it is just like the normal HU ID card except that it is green rather than blue and can't be used for crossing boarders. (This is because came here before Hungary joined the EU and came in with my Hungarian wife and kids - the bureaucracy was VERY different then !!)

Expatrick Jan 5th 2021 11:06 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12954044)
I believe it is the residence card that gets changed. I am a bit out of this game because I don't have a residence card because my status here is as a "settled foreigner" and I have an "ID Card For Foreigners", it is just like the normal HU ID card except that it is green rather than blue and can't be used for crossing boarders. (This is because came here before Hungary joined the EU and came in with my Hungarian wife and kids - the bureaucracy was VERY different then !!)

From the link you posted that would seem to be the case. Odd though as the residency card I have just been issued clearly states "unlimited". I will try & get clarification.

Expatrick Jan 5th 2021 12:30 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Exchange with our facilitator this morning -

​​​​​​
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...5f6a3ebf57.jpg
Hopefully more info tomorrow!

enter Jan 5th 2021 5:27 pm

Permanent Residency new rules
 
Bit early but out of curiosity I have registered through "Enter Hungary" portal. Reading all the choices I am a bit confused as to what process I need to go through to get my new permanent residency card based on my current permanent residency card with no expiry date. The ambassador stated it has been simplified???really. I will leave it until I have clarification on pressing the right buttons.

ecurb Jan 5th 2021 6:23 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Apparently there is a requirement to use a simplified process before the end of this year to obtain a type of permanent residency.
But I do not think it is ready to use yet so I am waiting a bit for the procedure to be defined.
This is from
https://www.interrelo.com/the-new-hungarian-law-relating-to-brexit/​​​​​​​
*******

Permanent residence

UK citizens and their third country citizen relatives holding a valid travel document, and a registration card, residence card or permanent residence card may apply for a national settlement (permanent residence) permit in a simplified procedure during the course of 2021.

The following conditions are not investigated during the application:

  • place of residence and income
  • health insurance
  • uninterrupted three-year prior residence
  • one-year stay (as a supported ancestor)
  • two-year marriage with a Hungarian citizen (for spouse)
  • previous Hungarian citizen
  • minor child of settled person or refugee
  • settlement being in harmony with the interest of Hungary

Those applications where the applicant’s residence threatens public or national security or are under entry or stay ban, or ISIS warning notification about them in the police system, will be rejected.

  • Same applies if the applicant provides false data, makes untrue statements, or deceives the authority.
  • Citizens having a criminal record will not receive a settlement permit either.
  • Adjoint authorities participating in the decision-making procedure must provide their opinion within 15 days.
Good news for British citizens who can credibly prove that they were living in Hungary prior to 1st January 2021, but do not hold a registration card yet. They may still request a national settlement permit.
******

ecurb Jan 5th 2021 6:36 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
I also had a look but could not work it out either. Like you I am going to wait a bit and see if it becomes clear what we should apply for. Maybe it is just Permanent Residence, and during the process they will see you are entitled to the simplified process, and not ask for so much documentation.

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 5th 2021 11:14 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12953156)
If you are going for dual nationality and have a Hungarian wife and children then the 'simplified nationality process' is available to you - which is less onerous in terms of language demands and some other things and I'm not sure how long you need to have been resident here, but I think that you need to have been married (to the Hungarian) for 10 years and still be together to apply.


Originally Posted by jetsam1 (Post 12953158)
Not quite there then! Only 7 years......

Stop press update !!................... If you are married to a Hungarian and have joint children then the qualifying time is only 5 years

Expatrick Jan 6th 2021 2:35 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Further -


Unfortunately the cards you have received are not national permanent residence permit (nemzeti letelepedési engedély) but another type of residency card (állandó tartózkodási kártya). I know it is a bit confusing but the national permanent residency card is for non-EU citizens, while the latter type of permanent residency is for EU citizens.

Now since you are no longer EU citizens, the new regulation (published during the very last minute on 18th December) requires you to convert your current cards to a national permanent residence permit. A national permanent residence permit provides permanent resident status and you will have the right to reside in the territory of Hungary indefinitely. The validity period of a national permanent residence permit is 5 years but you can easily extend it as you would do with your passport or driving license.

Converting between the 2 cards should be also very easy, you can do it online here and receive your new residency card within 30 days: https://enterhungary.gov.hu/eh/?en

ecurb Jan 8th 2021 4:47 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
I got a bit bored and decided to give it a try.
Registered to Enter Hungary online.
Created and submitted a 'permanent residence permit (settlement)' application, I just attached a scan of my passport picture page, and scans of both sides of my address and registration cards. Ignored any questions or attachments that I was allow to ignore. It was just for myself no dependants or partner. Normal UK citizen with passport etc. In the reason for application I put 'Brexit'.

I got back a response in about 20 mins.
They needed an attached CV, Appendix C' 'that said
'
Requesting national permanent residence permit for Brexit'.
signed and dated.
I also have to print out the application, sign and date it and down load it again.
Then have to make an appointment with an OIF office to finish the process in person.

A bit of a Rubik Cube but not impossible.
I will let you know how I get on.

Maybe there is a better way that someone else has found.

enter Jan 8th 2021 5:34 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
Me and my partner (retired) have held a permanent residency card, registration card/health card with no end date for over 7 years. I have dabbled again on the site and I think I have found the section applicable ? it asks amongst other things like address, previous address in UK, residency card number etc. I believe "at this stage" this maybe the correct application as they have simplified the process ??? We are bog standard applicants i.e previous comments so I hope in the near future I will have definitive information to apply.

jetsam1 Jan 8th 2021 8:20 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary (Post 12954389)
Stop press update !!................... If you are married to a Hungarian and have joint children then the qualifying time is only 5 years

Just the language requirement and I have been struggling to get past a certain level.

FenTiger Jan 9th 2021 6:46 am

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
I'm going to look into this as soon as I know which way forward we are moving for where we will live.

Expatrick Jan 10th 2021 1:49 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
Mods, might be worth merging this thread with the "Transition period ends...." thread to keep all the info in one place?

ecurb Jan 12th 2021 5:33 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 

Originally Posted by ecurb (Post 12955897)
I got a bit bored and decided to give it a try.
Registered to Enter Hungary online.
Created and submitted a 'permanent residence permit (settlement)' application, I just attached a scan of my passport picture page, and scans of both sides of my address and registration cards. Ignored any questions or attachments that I was allow to ignore. It was just for myself no dependants or partner. Normal UK citizen with passport etc. In the reason for application I put 'Brexit'.

I got back a response in about 20 mins.
They needed an attached CV, Appendix C' 'that said
'
Requesting national permanent residence permit for Brexit'.
signed and dated.
I also have to print out the application, sign and date it and down load it again.
Then have to make an appointment with an OIF office to finish the process in person.

A bit of a Rubik Cube but not impossible.
I will let you know how I get on.

Maybe there is a better way that someone else has found.

Had the appointment at OIF today.
It went with no major issues,
I was supposed to bring a real portrait photo on the completed signed form. I just had a printed one. The office decided it was too late in the day for me to go and get one, so accepted the printed one.
Also, I had paid the 10000 HUF fee online, which is not required, so now I have to claim it back. They provided all the correct forms for that.
So if you do this online, do not pay the fee even if it suggests you should, If you see a box for 'fee exemption' select 'yes'.

The card will be ready in about 2 months. After that the officer said I can then arrange a Hungarian ID card.

Peter_in_Hungary Jan 12th 2021 6:23 pm

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 

Originally Posted by ecurb (Post 12957765)
The card will be ready in about 2 months. After that the officer said I can then arrange a Hungarian ID card.

The card (I think) will be green rather than the blue for Hungarians and it can't be used for boarder crossing.

almafak Jan 14th 2021 2:20 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
I had already filled in the form applying for permanent residence so I made an appointment at OIF's Pécs office rather than type it all in again on the Enter Hungary website.
The clerk checked all my details. I included a proper CV for appendix C. They did not want a page saying 'Requesting national permanent residence permit for Brexit'!
I need to create an Appendix B for EACH of my living immediate relatives (parents, children and siblings) regardless of where they are living. This requirement came from a 'higher-up" in the office as my form was being processed. Maybe because I am not married to a Hungarian citizen.
My photo and fingerprints were taken and they will send my card directly to my address in Hungary.

There was no mention of a Hungarian ID card.

RHitch Jan 22nd 2021 9:47 am

Re: Permanent Residency new rules
 
"I got back a response in about 20 mins.
They needed an attached CV, Appendix C' 'that said
'
Requesting national permanent residence permit for Brexit'.
signed and dated."

Hi,
I hope you don't mind me asking this but when you had to attach a 'CV' did you have to fill out all of the things they ask for in that CV or did you just write
'Requesting national permanent residence permit for Brexit'.

Kind regards

ecurb Jan 22nd 2021 10:19 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Yes and no, when I did the online submission they only wanted the 'Requesting national...', so I included that in the online submission.
You then make an appointment with the OIF in your area, and take all the original docs that you submitted online.
When I was at the appointment, they ask me to add a bit more to the appendix, So I just wrote, in English, I came to Hungary July 2020, and I have purchased a house and I am planning to stay in Hungary.
It was nothing more than that, and the officer was quite happy.
So they may or may not ask for more and I think it depends on who is doing your interview.
Certainly there was never any questions about proving anything.

RHitch Jan 22nd 2021 10:52 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Thanks for this, it is really helpful. Anyway, my documents are submitted now, I have received a prepared application which I think I have to download, sign and attach a photograph to. I'm not sure what I need to do with that once completed. Do I have to re-upload it or just take it to the immigration office? Did you just turn up at the immigration office or did you have to apply for an appointment? Sorry about all the questions but you really are the expert having gone through it successfully.

ecurb Jan 22nd 2021 11:13 am

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Your Welcome, I up loaded them, there was a link to do this once I logged onto enterhungary online system (To Do menu), it seems you are using that.
They also sent a letter to my enterhungary logon and sent an email explaining what to do next.

You probably have to book an appointment for the office, I did it online, I assume that is the same for everywhere due to Covid.
One strange thing is, that it is another website to make the appointments and I had to register for that one separately from the EnterHungary one.

RHitch Jan 22nd 2021 1:16 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
I am at the stage where I need to apply for an appointment. For those who are following behind, you can do this on the following website.
HTTP :// oif. gov. hu/ index.php? lang=en

Remove spaces.

enter Jan 23rd 2021 1:29 pm

Re: Transition period ends, some clarification documents
 
Anyone tell me the address of the Immigration Office in Keszthely as I hope to go there eventually.Is it the document office in Kossuth Lajos U.42 Thank you.


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:11 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.