Aquavit

In my second winter now and still on something of a learning curve with my logburner as regards which fuel is most econimcal and/or best.

Like a lot of things I'm surprised how expensive firewood "tuzifa" is in Hungary, I naively thought given the abundence of trees and the Hungarian preponderence for burning timber to keep warm it would be cheap!

I've used a mixture of un-cut logs, cut and quartered logs and am now trialling compressed wood bricks, having also tried lignite. Leaving aside the uncut logs (which are a lot of work cutting, chopping and handling) it works out roughly the same at around £200 per month in the heating season. The raw logs are obviously cheaper but a hell of a lot of work and I would need to build a stock up to give me time to achieve seasoned wood.

I have a modern logburner supplying six radiators to heat around 85 - 90 square metres. Hot water is supplied from the usual electric boiler everyone has over here.

So how do my figures compare with what others are using, are there cheaper supplies of firewood to be found and are you all using wood rather than "brikettes"?

jetsam1

Using wood. But we have just cleared 1.5 hectares of woodland last year....

What type of wood are you using? Acacia is the best as it burns really hot and slow. Best buy you can make is a chainsaw. We have a hydraulic log splitter, paid for itself in a year in my opinion.

Is there much forestry in your area? Maybe go direct to them see if you can get a discount? The prices in Bauhaus etc are a joke!!

Aquavit

Thanks Jetsam, I have a chainsaw and axe so do cut some of my own timber. It's a lot of work though, so maybe a log splitter would make sense - what is the cost of these?

I also buy in ready cut/split logs, 5 cubic metres including transport costs me 80,000Ft. and lasts roughly a month. This is generally beech/birch I think, but not always well seasoned.

jetsam1

Seasoning makes a big difference. We have just finished some three year old wood and even compared to the two year old wood there is a big difference in how it burns.

We got an ALKO log splitter, and it was a little pricey, HUF 90,000.... I know....... But it does really help in that we are not totally knackered after a few hours axe work! It's economical due to the fact we have quite a lot of trees to cut down.

5 cubic meters for HUF80,0000 doesn't sound too bad.

wolfi

Jetsam is right, I asked our neighbour and he also said around 16 000 HUF per cubic meter cut/split - brought to your house.
But five meters per month looks a bit high to me.

Aquavit

Yes Wolfi, that is what is troubling me - 80,000Ft per month is a big heating bill.
I wonder if the wood is not seasoned and with a high moisture content therefore making it inefficient?

My, so far limited, trial with "brikettes" is working out about the same cost but the fire runs cleaner and with less ash. It also needs topping up less often as the bricks burn longer than logs.

wolfi

Maybe it's the moisture, wood is better after drying three years. We only use it in our "kandalo", nice to look at in the evening - 6 or 8 pieces.
Luckily we have gas central heating.

Aquavit

All the Hungarians I talk to swear by logs and tell me that gas is very expensive. Is your heating bill comparable to mine?

wolfi

It's around 20 000 HUF a month (year round ...), including hot water - but our guest rooms aren't heated all the time, only our three main rooms (around 60 square m).
How's the insulation of your house?
That's a big factor - and your favourite temperature ...

Peter_in_Hungary

I heat with logs but I can't comment on price as I have my own forest, however a good chainsaw is essential and a good splitter even more so. (mine is tractor driven)

The most important factor is seasoning, 2 years minimum, for which you need the (covered) storage to store the processed wood. Without the seasoning the efficiency falls through the floor. You will not be able to buy seasoned wood (regardless what the seller says) It is the seasoning factor which explains the difference between brickets and logs

Locally buying processed wood is reckoned to be about the same price as gas.

There is a growing concern about the pollution caused a wood stoves, basically regarding the sub 2.5um particles and for this reason gas is seen as better.

wolfi

Peter, you're right but not only wood adds to the pollution - some people here in the village burn everything!

A friend of my wife proudly showed us her modified kandalo which uses wood pellets (with an automatic feed), but I don't know whether these are better for the environment.
We use our koandalo only for fun, with really dry wood and consider it as a kind of iron reserve. It happened once 10 years ago) that there was no electricity for 24 hours, so no central heating - and it was really cold also! We and our guests were happy that we could heat at least one room then!

A bit OT:
In our village poor people can get a certain amount of wood for free from the village -right now the truck is driving around every day for this ...
But the wood probably also isn't really seasoned/dried.

Carrot_Cruncher

We have a 150 sq/m peasant style house with the original mud floor in the attic, 1/3rd of the house double glazed, the remainder with the original secondary style glazing and primarily heated via gas boiler. In the winter our gas bill is around 40,000 HUF for the mid-winter months and we also have a wood burner which we ocasionally put on if we need a boost. Heating is on from around October to April, set at about 22 degrees. Late Autumn and early Spring gas bills usually come in around 15-20,000 HUF.


We usually buy any wood around a year in advance and store it in a covered shed. This winter is mild so I think we will have a surplus going into next year.

Peter_in_Hungary

About gas heating costs - I know a family of 5 in a traditional house ground floor about 80m2 with bedrooms in the converted attic, last winter the gas was about 60K -70k per month but that included the hot water, this year as it has been warmer (and there is a bit more insulation installed) it is about 40k -50k, again including hot water.

Bottom line - I don't think wood is cheaper if you are buying it in ready cut or processed and marginal if you are buying logs and cutting/splitting yourself.

Re pollution, modern wood burners are better than the traditional type but it is the emissions that you can't see that are the dangerous ones. Smoke is the headline noticeable bit but it's the sub 2.5uM particles that do the damage and all wood stoves produce those.

Aquavit

Thanks all, some useful info here.

It would seem from user experience quoted in above examples that gas is no more expensive than wood, but it's not an option for me as the cost of converting wouldn't be worth it. I need to work out a more economical way of running my existing system.

It looks like two things are key if burning wood - it must be properly seasoned and the house should be well insulated.

I need a new roof on the house, which should go in this coming spring/summer, I'll look in to adding insulation above the traditional earth covering we have at the moment. I know some of our outside walls have the external foam insulation on them, maybe I can also do those that are currently lacking it.

Peter, what are these particles you talk of that you say all logburners emit and are they harmful to health?

enter

We went the combi gas boiler route, 7 rads, also serving the shower. No scrimping on using it and our yearly bill (which we pay monthly) comes to approx £500 and no mess.