Yeoman

Correct me if I'm wrong.

One applies for a 'registration card' NOT a 'residence card' or 'residency' as I have read on these forums and elsewhere. A registration card has nothing to do with residency, which is where I was getting confused.

Tax residency is based on time spent in the country and Domicile residency is related to more complex subjective things.

Although having a registration card might support the fact that your Domicile is Hungary, you can have a registration card in Hungary and still be domiciled in the UK. Revelation.

Rural Hungary

It's called a registration card but you apply for it if you wish to reside in Hungary.

Residence Permits
EU/EEA citizens wishing to reside in Hungary must obtain a Registration Card. Once a Registration Card is obtained, there is no need to renew it as long as the person retains a continual status of working, studying, etc.

Yeoman

That is true, BUT it seems you do NOT have to plan to be 'resident' in either form (tax or domicile) to obtain and have a registration card. This is the revelation.
The sole purpose of getting a registration card is not residency. There are benefits to getting a registration card even if you do not wish to reside in Hungary.

Residing: "Have one's permanent home in a particular place."

Rural Hungary

When applying for the card, you are stating your intention to reside within the country, hence the requirement for proof of income, proof of health cover etc.
You are then classed as "resident" in Hungary and will be taxed in Hungary on your worldwide income - regardless of the number of days spent here.

Regards usefulness, the address card is the one required for car registration, phone contracts etc.

Yeoman

I don't want to dismiss your comment. This may be right, but I have found no support for it on government sites. (That could be because I do not speak Hungarian and hence can not find the info you state).

But if the above is speculation based off the logic of "hence the requirement for proof of income, proof of health cover etc." then I don't think it's true what you are saying.

"Resident" of what. Tax or domicile.

I think you are arguing that we become a Hungarian Tax resident if we have a registration card, but that is contradictory if the following gov link is true, given legally you 'should' to get a registration card IF you stay longer than 90 days in the country...

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...mployed_en.htm
if we spend more than 183 days in Hungary, we become a Hungarian tax resident on our total worldwide income. If you live in Hungary less than 183 days per year then you only pay tax on income earned in Hungary.

From what I can tell having a registration card is very different to residency.

Rural Hungary

By applying for a registration card, you are exercising "A három hónapot meghaladó tartózkodás joga" the right of residence of more than three months. Your status in Hungary is then "resident" despite your domicile being in the UK.

Liability for income tax
An individual’s tax liability in Hungary depends on residence
status. If an individual is a resident, worldwide income must
be declared in the annual tax return.

Having a registration card is directly linked to residing in a country. With free movement, there is no requirement for a residence permit as there is an automatic right to reside. By registering, you are exercising that right and proving that you fufill the criteria to do so - you are in effect "making a declaration of residency". Some countries issue a certificate instead of a card and there is no conformity of title - registration certificate, residency certificate, registration card.

Mitzyboy

No thats not so, because if you have no property in the UK and have property in Hungary then your centre of habitual residence will be Hungary and you will be tax resident in Hungary. Of course you could just chance it

Its the problem that raises its head in many EU countries for people. There are people in Spain for instance that ensure they reside in Spain for 182 days, therefore ensuring they are not tax residents there. However, they are still domiciled residents because they have to be after 90 days.

Mitzyboy

TAX residency!!!!!

You are arguing the point with people have already been there, done that. You don't have the experience that we do unfortunately.

You are correct in saying that they cant stop you from residing there even if you dont have a residency card. My main experience is only of Spain but I can tell you that things can become very difficult if you dont. For instance with a residency certificate we get an NIE identifier. We have to quote that number when we do anythging. Open bank accounts, pay bills etc etc. Policie will ask for our "residents certificate" on occasion.

I appreciate what you are trying to say, but it's just not as easy and clear cut as you might think You will be living in another country. You will have to explain yourself at some point along the line ....... or maybe you won't, thats the risk you are suggesting you take

Rural Hungary

Hi Mitzy, think something must have gotten lost in replying quickly.

My point was that the registration is directly linked to declaring yourself resident and in Hungary, when you are resident, the last I heard, you are liable for income tax in Hungary on all worldwide income.
Yeoman stated the registration card was very different to residency so my reply was pointing out that it isn't, it is only because of the automatic right to residency that a "residence permit" is no longer required. This does not negate the need to register and declare your residency in Hungary.

richardmc

(blue)

So if you have a registration card and an address card (pink/yellow) you no longer need to register as resident? i'm a bit confused, if correct how do you get your TAJ card for Hungarian healthcare other than going to Kaposvar to get residency??

Rural Hungary

When you apply for the registration card, you are registering that you are exercising your right to reside longer than 3 months. Most people call it a residency card - as in other EU countries, it is called a residency certificate - as it avoids confusion (like now). If you have a registration card, you have registered as resident.

richardmc

So do you know how to obtain your TAJ card? do you have to complete form S1
for UK to opt out of NHS.

Mitzyboy

No, sorry I quoted the wrong person

Yeoman

Wow. I'm sorry for banging on about this if it turns out I have missed something.
I'm perfectly open to believing I'm wrong on this, but what you are stating is contradictory to the governement links I have provided, and also it does not seem logical.
I have seen no government sites confirming what you are saying.

Where did you get this Hungarian quote from? Where can you find it written that ones status becomes "resident" after registering?
Just because the Hungarian words translate to "right of residence" isn't enough proof for me that one is legally a tax resident upon registering. I wonder if "the right of" is key in that sentence. Different from "you become" for instance.

It makes no sense whatsoever that there is a 'rule' stating: that one becomes tax resident of Hungary if one spends 183 days per year in Hungary. Yet you are stating that if one registers, one becomes tax resident? yesno?
Given one is legally obliged to register within 90 days, do you see how the "if one spends 183 days per year in Hungary" rule would become redundant...
Not logical to me.


Ok, so you are arguing I will be domiciled because of registration?
You are arguing the Spanish residents will be domiciled but not be tax residents?

Then I think you go on to contradict the above by saying I will be a tax resident. Or is this because of the specific scenario "because if you have no property in the UK and have property in Hungary"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitual_residence
Therefore given my specific scenario you are arguing that after registering I would become domiciled and a tax resident of Hungary?


If the laws are a grey area. I can settle at that, and I will take the least risky option.

I never suggested or inferred going against the 'rules'/'laws'. I'm challenging whether you both have got the 'rules' correct.

I'm not pig headedly arguing a point. You haven't provided me with clarity or any links / information to confirm what you are both saying, and I'm not sure you and Rural even agree on the points you are making?


Can you both answer these 2 questions yesno.
1) If I obtain the Hungarian registration card successfully do I become a tax resident of Hungary?
2) If I obtain the Hungarian registration card successfully do I become domiciled in Hungary?

Thanks for your time

Rural Hungary

Thank goodness for that! Thought I was suffering from lack of clarity due to lack of

Yeoman, I think you best consult a solicitor for a definitive answer. Good luck