Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Hungary
Reload this Page >

Plumbing advice etc

Plumbing advice etc

Old Oct 26th 2015, 6:34 pm
  #16  
BE Enthusiast
 
duztee's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Nagykoros, Hungary
Posts: 773
duztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond reputeduztee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Thank you Peter for the clarification.
It just seemed odd for iron fittings made in Italy to still be imperial in this metric age, I assume it is an International Standard of some kind.
Yes all the pipes will be lagged soon, the bare pipes do also allow a large amount of heat from the stored hot water to escape when the boiler is idle.
duztee is offline  
Old Oct 26th 2015, 10:12 pm
  #17  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

That reminds me, I must get some more 22mm lagging to do the pieces of pipe on the right hand side of the green cylinder. I was not going to lag the heat exchanger pipes but I will check how warm they get when I'm heating the water using the immersion heater. There will be no flow through them at such times but copper is a good conductor of heat.....
Yes, I was surprised when I discovered that the threaded fittings are all in imperial sizes. I try to avoid threaded joints as much as possible but there is often no alternative. If ever I get any leaks you can bet they are from PTFE taped joints, especially those you can only tighten to a certain angular orientation like bib taps and valves. I have been putting a drop of liquid PTFE on top of the tape and that does seem to help.

Last edited by fidobsa; Oct 26th 2015 at 11:52 pm.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Oct 26th 2015, 11:01 pm
  #18  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,100
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Originally Posted by fidobsa
If ever I get any leaks you can bet they are from PTFE taped joints, especially those you can only tighten to a certain anglular orientation like bib taps and valves. I have been putting a drop of liquid PTFE on top of the tape and that does seem to help.
I don't use PTFE tape - I use either hemp plus a bit of jointing compound or loctite 55 which is a string covered in a white goo designed for pipe threads. The loctite 55 is approved for gas as well as water whereas the hemp is cheaper (and no - plumbers hemp does not work when you put it in your pipe and s.....)
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2015, 7:29 am
  #19  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Originally Posted by duztee
Heath Robinson is alive and well and living in Hungary if my new boiler installation is anything to go by.
Looks quite a neat job compared to some DIY systems:

fidobsa is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2015, 8:28 am
  #20  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Hawley
Posts: 958
Jack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond reputeJack_Russells4ever has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
I don't use PTFE tape - I use either hemp plus a bit of jointing compound or loctite 55 which is a string covered in a white goo designed for pipe threads. The loctite 55 is approved for gas as well as water whereas the hemp is cheaper (and no - plumbers hemp does not work when you put it in your pipe and s.....)
Funny bit at the end.

Jack_Russells4ever is offline  
Old Nov 4th 2015, 4:35 am
  #21  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

I might as well update you with my tales of woe! I was back at the house for a few days and did some testing etc. Initially there were a couple of leaks from soldered 28mm joints. The problem was, I ran out of my old flux I brought from UK and I could only buy flux with powdered solder mixed in it. When I solder a joint I look for a complete silver ring round the rim of the copper fitting. With this flux you can get a complete silver ring but it may only be the solder from the flux rather than the capillary flow of solder round the joint.
As I was filling the system I was measuring how much water it took as it will not ultimately be running on water but the antifreeze / inhibitor I mentioned earlier. I got to 67 litres but that was before bleeding 3 of the radiators that failed to bleed and will probably need to be filled from a secondary filling point. The system could end up needing 80 litres of antifreeze which would cost about £240. This is more than I paid for the stove so it seems ridiculous! I initially ordered a 20 litre bottle on the assumption that it was a concentrate that you could dilute for the required level of frost protection. It says on the bottle that it must be used neat but it also says it is OK down to -28 c which is probably colder than it ever gets round these parts.

The pump I used was actually made in Hungary by a firm called Halm. The instructions were very poor and I ended up having to email the manufacturer for advice. The pump has a proportional pressure automatic speed control which I believe is meant for use in conjunction with thermostatic radiator valves. I don't have TRVs so I wanted manual speed control. It turned out, all I had to do was remove the outer fascia of the pump and move a tiny PCB switch to get the manual setting. This is covered in the instruction book but without words, just icons and graphs which I had failed to comprehend.

My first attempts at lighting the stove were before I had the pump working satisfactorily so I still don't know if the central heating will work. I had to set the divertor valve to hot water and the gravity system for heating the water works very well so I had my first bath using wood heated water!

The teething troubles I've described so far can be overcome as I've had similar problems in other houses and they have worked out OK in the end. Now I come to a much more worrying problem for which I so far have no solution. I have had 3 goes at lighting the stove and each time it has filled the kitchen with smoke as none of the smoke wanted to go up the chimney. The first attempt was the worst, at one point you could not see across the room, it was like being in a pea souper fog! The second time I used a blowlamp to heat the black metal flue pipe shown in the photo. This did eventually get the smoke to go up the chimney and once started it was more or less OK. Smoke would still come out when opening the firebox door to put logs on so it was still not drawing well. There was also constant drips of water from the metal flue, condensation I assume. I did wonder if there could be a pinhole leak in the boiler water jacket but everywhere looked dry when I later stripped down the stove. I did sweep the chimney and do some repairs to it in preparation for this new heating system. It had probably not been used for some years as I think the previous owner of the house had stoves in other rooms.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Nov 4th 2015, 5:19 am
  #22  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near Esztergom
Posts: 923
wolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Thanks for you telling us your experiences!

How high is that chimney? If it's not high enough, the pressure difference might not be nough - especially if the chimney is still wet inside after not having been used for a long time, at least that's an explanation I heard.

So maybe you should use easily flammable stuff, paper or these white/orange pieces that are sold everywhere and very dry, thin pieces of wood.

Good luck!

PS:
That's how a friend tests a chimney:
Put in some pieces of paper in the stove (newspapers are good), light them with a match and watch where the smoke goes.
wolfi is offline  
Old Nov 4th 2015, 7:05 am
  #23  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

The chimney looks like it may have been extended at some stage so it may always have given trouble. It is a single storey property and the chimney reaches about 2 feet above the ridge of the roof. I don't buy newspapers so I mainly use junk mail for lighting the fire. For the 3rd attempt at lighting it I did not put any wood in at all just lots of screwed up paper and strips of thin card. It kept going out so I ended up playing the blowlamp on it to get it going. One thing I wondered about is the size of flue pipe. I just did it to the size of connection at the back of the stove (150mm if I recall correctly). This is bigger than I've seen in any other domestic setting so should I have reduced it down to a more usual size? It is brand new clean steel at the moment but the flue might work better when it has a layer of soot so the smoke is not being cooled so much by the metal.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Nov 4th 2015, 11:44 pm
  #24  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,100
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

First the flue pipe size, if the manufactures put a 150mm connection on the stove - then use a 150mm flue pipe.

There are guide lines about chimney heights and typically if the chimney is 2ft above the ridge line and the chimney is at the ridge then the expectation is that it would work. If the chimney is away from the ridge line then there are other calculations about the height which turn out that the further away from the ridge the lower the chimney can be, so in any event I would expect the chimney to work. Having said that other factors can upset a chimney such as almost anything near by that approaches the height of the chimney e.g. trees and buildings. Its not an exact science and each situation will be different (including wind direction).

Don't confuse repair with extension. if the chimney is a bit old then it may well have been taken down to near roof level and rebuilt as over time the mortar can weather out and the chimney develop a nasty lean,waiting for the next storm to blow it on to the roof.

If the chimney has not been used for some time (worse if there is no rain cowl) then it will be cold and wet, this will make it difficult to draw. As wolfi said use easily flammable stuff to shift the lump of cold damp air in the chimney so that the thing can start drawing. If you are getting drips down the metal flue pipe then I would suspect that the fire wood is not dry enough. Fire wood should be 2 years old to get it down to the 20% moisture level, less than 2 years seasoning will give a higher water content. If the wood has a high water content (fresh is about 80%) then the efficiency of the burning is way down and a lot of energy is used to dry of the wood rather than heat the room and all the moisture goes up the chimney to cool it and mess it up with tar. (If when you open the fire the end of the burning wood is hissing then the wood is horribly fresh).
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2015, 7:23 am
  #25  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Thanks Peter. I wonder if it would be worth me getting or borrowing one of those gas burners they use for the outside witches cauldron type cooking pots? If I ran that for a few days the hot air should find it's way up the chimney and dry it out. It does not have a cowl and there are damp patches on the wall near the ceiling from the recent very wet weather.

The chimney is away from the ridge but is probably only about 20 metres from the edge of a forest with trees much taller than the house. There are also a few trees in the neighbours garden which are nearer. The wood is some I bought in summer 2014. I have burnt some of the same batch at the other house without any condensation problems. It certainly seems to produce plenty of heat as I only ever had a couple of logs on at a time and the hot water soon got really hot.



The chimney we are talking about is the one on the right of this photo:


Last edited by fidobsa; Nov 5th 2015 at 7:29 am.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Nov 7th 2015, 10:58 pm
  #26  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,100
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Tall trees 20M from the house could affect the chimney, but I would expect the effect to be wind dependant.
It sounds like the chimney is very damp and cold. I would not bother with a gas burner if you can get the chimney drawing with sheets of paper stuffed in the stove, then light a small fire with kindling and keep a SMALL fire going as hot as as it will go to get the chimney working. It will take time to dry out the chimney. I have used a gas plumbers torch on full power to get a chimney going in the past and have found that this generates enough heat to shift the lump of cold air in a chimney. Direct the flame up the stove pipe from inside the stove.
Alternatively leave the witch's cauldron alone and just get the help of the witches!
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Nov 8th 2015, 2:20 am
  #27  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near Esztergom
Posts: 923
wolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Peter's advice re paper and a small fire seems good to me, I did the same in the "kandalo" in our guest apartment which hadn't been used for a long time (most guests coem in summer ...) - and it worked, but took a whole afternoon and evening, around 6 hours, then I could put in larger pieces of wood.

And again, as it's been said before, wood should be two years old - and stored properly.

PS and not too much OT:
Does anyone here have experience with one of those little gadgets that are supposed to measure the wood's (or a wall's) humidity? Are they reliable or just a kind of toy?
wolfi is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2015, 1:44 am
  #28  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,667
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Originally Posted by wolfi

PS and not too much OT:
Does anyone here have experience with one of those little gadgets that are supposed to measure the wood's (or a wall's) humidity? Are they reliable or just a kind of toy?

I do have one of those cheap moisture meters from Lidl and I just checked a few of the split logs at the split surfaces. I was getting figures from 10 to 15%. For comparison I checked the arm of the chair I'm sitting on and got a reading of 10%. I also checked a living tree in the garden and that was going off the scale which goes up to 44%.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Nov 24th 2015, 3:57 am
  #29  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near Esztergom
Posts: 923
wolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond reputewolfi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Plumbing advice etc

Thanks, fidobsa!

I'll get me one too and report on the findings.
wolfi is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.