Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Hungary
Reload this Page >

Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Old Jan 25th 2015, 5:48 am
  #1  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 25
paulscotland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Hi Folks,

I am a brand new member to this forum. So a big collective "Hello" to you all.
I am based in Scotland and I'm looking to leave the UK to start a new life abroad. I am really interested in the smallholding/permaculture/forest garden way of life, which is challenging enough, but on top of that I want to do it in a better climate (and away from the UK)

My first three questions are as follows:

Is it possible for a foreigner to buy a smallholding/farm.... or at least buy a house/cottage with at least 1 acre (3 acres preferably) of land to convert?

Also, is it possible to buy more than one property. As I'm also considering buying a small house/cottage and create a holiday let to make a modest income on the side?

What are the going rates for a small holiday home in Hungary? Could my hair-brained idea work?

Thanks in advance to all that answer.

Kind Regards,

Paul.
paulscotland is offline  
Old Jan 25th 2015, 1:36 pm
  #2  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
mawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Originally Posted by paulscotland
Hi Folks,

I am a brand new member to this forum. So a big collective "Hello" to you all.
I am based in Scotland and I'm looking to leave the UK to start a new life abroad. I am really interested in the smallholding/permaculture/forest garden way of life, which is challenging enough, but on top of that I want to do it in a better climate (and away from the UK)

My first three questions are as follows:

Is it possible for a foreigner to buy a smallholding/farm.... or at least buy a house/cottage with at least 1 acre (3 acres preferably) of land to convert?

Also, is it possible to buy more than one property. As I'm also considering buying a small house/cottage and create a holiday let to make a modest income on the side?

What are the going rates for a small holiday home in Hungary? Could my hair-brained idea work?

Thanks in advance to all that answer.

Kind Regards,

Paul.
Hi their and welcome to the group I will state first I am offering my advice witch others will correct I am sure of that
1st can you speak Hungarian that is a big Help other wise you will be struggling
2nd The land laws have changed that a foreigner now can purchase Closed Garden Plots witch up to this year restricted to Hungarian's, are a lot less and very in M2 for instance 2,000m2 for 400.00fh that's just a parcel of land in my area but with connected water electricity same very from 1.2 1.6 mill fh. these will have some sort of house there them
3rd The amount of Land to under 1 hectare accumulated with one or more plots I am led to believe, The Big Problem with this type of Property and Land it varies county to county I am in the proses of purchasing one of the above the first part is 60 days wear the proposed purchased property is post during that 60 days any one can offer a higher price that you have agreed if no one at end of 60 days gives a higher price then Hear it go's forwarded to the Land Committee for approval time it takes not sure but in other counts it runs in line with the 60 days notice.
4 Location well I no others will give other opines but my self I am in a good area 60km Budapest witch going to Uk good this area is close to Lake Valance the seconded largest Lake in Hungary so plenty of around for offering out door activates there is a Lot to do Accommodation and further Moor this is Hunting Area so accommodation for Hunters is their.
5 Serving with on the land you have is easer than you my think, I run my life that way I am still hear and gaining weight so I will stop my ranting's let others correct as usual what I have written, get back if I can help digger47
mawood47 is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 6:52 am
  #3  
BE Forum Addict
 
fidobsa's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: North east Croatia
Posts: 1,654
fidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond reputefidobsa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

As digger says, you will probably find the language barrier the biggest challenge in Hungary. It sounds like you could work with the 1 hectare land ownership limit (2.47 acres) but even if you needed more you could get round that with a deal whereby a Hungarian retains the title to some of the land and you pay a low rent for its use.

In terms of holiday lets you would need to be in a part of Hungary that has tourism. Most Brits coming to Hungary just visit Budapest but will probably want accommodation within the city. There is also the lake Balaton area but I would suggest you go there for a holiday yourself before choosing it for your scheme. The alternative would be to offer some form of themed holiday, teaching permaculture for example. That might be a possibility in the long term. If you could also lay on transport from the airport it could help.

Finding properties to meet your requirements should be quite easy. My own place came with 6500 square metres of land, some farm buildings and a well (the mains water is metered and might prove expensive if watering a lot of plants). If I needed it I could probably buy the vacant house next door also. This is quite typical in Hungarian villages, as there is a surplus of housing and most people live in the towns to be near their place of work. I know a Brit who bought 7 houses in one village to get enough land for his fruit orchard business. He uses the spare houses to put up volunteers from HelpX and Workaway.
fidobsa is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 9:41 am
  #4  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,094
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Hi Paulscotland

I agree with the above, with some concerns and points. Yes you can buy up to 1ha without problems and if you have a recognised agricultural qualification or have been engaged in agricultural work for 3 years or more (proof needed) then you can buy up to 3000ha.

When agricultural property is purchased there is a procedure whereby there is a list of entitled persons who are able to purchase the property ahead of you (pre-emptive right of purchase). (These are national park, local livestock farmers, local farmers etc.). You agree your purchase which is advertised and these people can buy at the price you offer. Once the purchase is advertised then the price is fixed at your agreed price so a bidding war can not happen. The same restrictions / procedures apply to renting land.

These rules were put in place to try to prevent land being bought for speculation. In the past only Hungarians could buy land and there were various schemes (some legal some less so) to get around this, because of these previous schemes people and solicitors are very cautious about not following the rules.

If the property is non-agricultural then there are no limits.

Earning a living on 1ha will IMO be difficult, I know one family who does this and they have 350m2 poly tunnel which is managed organically and they go to market 3 times a week, its difficult and the point is that unless it was something fairly intensive it won't provide an income. I don't think 1ha of peramaculture would do it. (we farm 30ha of livestock farm which would not be viable without Brussels support!) There is a market however for 'local produce' and all our produce goes out through farm gate sales.

For an income with a small amount of land then its either intensive or perhaps bee keeping. The Hungarian honey market is quite strong and I know 2 professional bee keepers, one organic one not, and you IMO would need between 100 and 200 hives to make a living.

Watering from the tap would be prohibitive expensive, however a lot of the type of places you would want have wells, probably dug, occasionally borehole, these would need to be tested for quality and flow prior to purchase.

As alluded to above tourism is difficult, even in a tourist area, outside of a tourist area then probably only a themed offering would work and the accommodation standards demanded are fairly high and heating in the winter can cost a fortune in older buildings. The tourist season is fairly short, typically limited to school holidays. We did holiday lets for some years and we now let to permanent tenants but are lucky enough to be in an area where this is possible.

The housing market in Hungary is in surplus due to years of declining population, emigration and a financial system that favoured new build rather than restoration. There are many houses that have been on the market for years (5+) however there is still the view that all foreigners are rich and caution is needed as the price can go up significantly once it is known a foreigner is interested. The cost of property is very dependant on area and the sort of property you are envisaging could be as low as 5,000 GBP (with lots of work needed to it in a poor area) with probably 30,000 GBP or more at the upper end.

Yes the language is a pig!
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 9:59 am
  #5  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
mawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
Hi Paulscotland

I agree with the above, with some concerns and points. Yes you can buy up to 1ha without problems and if you have a recognised agricultural qualification or have been engaged in agricultural work for 3 years or more (proof needed) then you can buy up to 3000ha.

When agricultural property is purchased there is a procedure whereby there is a list of entitled persons who are able to purchase the property ahead of you (pre-emptive right of purchase). (These are national park, local livestock farmers, local farmers etc.). You agree your purchase which is advertised and these people can buy at the price you offer. Once the purchase is advertised then the price is fixed at your agreed price so a bidding war can not happen. The same restrictions / procedures apply to renting land.

These rules were put in place to try to prevent land being bought for speculation. In the past only Hungarians could buy land and there were various schemes (some legal some less so) to get around this, because of these previous schemes people and solicitors are very cautious about not following the rules.

If the property is non-agricultural then there are no limits.

Earning a living on 1ha will IMO be difficult, I know one family who does this and they have 350m2 poly tunnel which is managed organically and they go to market 3 times a week, its difficult and the point is that unless it was something fairly intensive it won't provide an income. I don't think 1ha of peramaculture would do it. (we farm 30ha of livestock farm which would not be viable without Brussels support!) There is a market however for 'local produce' and all our produce goes out through farm gate sales.

For an income with a small amount of land then its either intensive or perhaps bee keeping. The Hungarian honey market is quite strong and I know 2 professional bee keepers, one organic one not, and you IMO would need between 100 and 200 hives to make a living.

Watering from the tap would be prohibitive expensive, however a lot of the type of places you would want have wells, probably dug, occasionally borehole, these would need to be tested for quality and flow prior to purchase.

As alluded to above tourism is difficult, even in a tourist area, outside of a tourist area then probably only a themed offering would work and the accommodation standards demanded are fairly high and heating in the winter can cost a fortune in older buildings. The tourist season is fairly short, typically limited to school holidays. We did holiday lets for some years and we now let to permanent tenants but are lucky enough to be in an area where this is possible.

The housing market in Hungary is in surplus due to years of declining population, emigration and a financial system that favoured new build rather than restoration. There are many houses that have been on the market for years (5+) however there is still the view that all foreigners are rich and caution is needed as the price can go up significantly once it is known a foreigner is interested. The cost of property is very dependant on area and the sort of property you are envisaging could be as low as 5,000 GBP (with lots of work needed to it in a poor area) with probably 30,000 GBP or more at the upper end.

Yes the language is a pig!

As Peter seed in last sentence Foreigners are Rich this is problem the one I am completing the purchasing on including a past planning application in the sale price all document's now in contact with the Architect whom will resubmit for approval, But same area of Land the previse one went well till the Day of first part of Contract call in to see the Plot to find that the next door plot owner add placed pegs in the Driveway reducing the lane 2.5 meters that meant imposable to get building material's to the Plot, so watch out for Boundary Markers I did a Measurement with Plot owner at 3.2 meter she was wrong digger47
mawood47 is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 10:44 am
  #6  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 568
jetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

I would heartily recommend having a native speaker to help whenever possible when dealing with the councils and government departments as you will be unlikely to find an English speaker in our experience. (I'm in the fortunate position of being married to a Hungarian and my Father-in-Law knows the systems). I have been on a language course for 2 months or so and still haven't progressed much beyond very basic grammer.

The bureaucracy can be very frustrating and have every piece of paper you think might be required as requirements seem to change depending on the individual you speak to!! We've learned you have to keep chasing up paperwork as we discovered last week that the local planning office hadn't updated the registry for change of use........ Never would have known if we hadn't been setting up for a new council tax!!

We're hoping to start the beekeeping on a more organised basis this year but you will need special registration (Ostermelo etc) and yes you do need a lot of hives to make a primary living from it.

However, Hungary is lovely but does require patience! Something I'm not so great at! Paul in Eger and several others can give you lots of good advice and help point you in the right direction.

Last edited by jetsam1; Jan 26th 2015 at 10:46 am. Reason: Forgotten how to write properly.
jetsam1 is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 3:20 pm
  #7  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
mawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

ref>paulscotland Bee Keeping he would have to be member of the Blackwatch Regiment to keep a eye on his defence of the Bee swarm sorry digger47
mawood47 is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 5:01 pm
  #8  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,094
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

What Digger said about problems with boundaries is real. All land is registered in the local land office and maps are available, but most owners have never had their land measured and what they assume is the boundary may not be. There are also those owners and neighbours who will say where the boundary is to a new or prospective owner in the hope of gaining a few meters. Land can be measured by a Land Measurer (land surveyor) for approximately 100GBP for a small plot, and this measurement will be accurate to a few centimetres. IMO worth the expense if you are in any doubt having used your own surveyors tape.

I would second what Jetsam1 said and add - get everything in writing. official information given over the phone is worthless.
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 5:21 pm
  #9  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
mawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
What Digger said about problems with boundaries is real. All land is registered in the local land office and maps are available, but most owners have never had their land measured and what they assume is the boundary may not be. There are also those owners and neighbours who will say where the boundary is to a new or prospective owner in the hope of gaining a few meters. Land can be measured by a Land Measurer (land surveyor) for approximately 100GBP for a small plot, and this measurement will be accurate to a few centimetres. IMO worth the expense if you are in any doubt having used your own surveyors tape.

I would second what Jetsam1 said and add - get everything in writing. official information given over the phone is worthless.
Peter, my I had to that, when we got the present Plot not the won witch in process of purchasing, On ower road up We wear constantly Confronted by the last plot owner he want 10.000fh per year to pas through, so got Polymaster to sort him out, now he selling up good grape plot digger47
mawood47 is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 6:24 pm
  #10  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 25
paulscotland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Thank you so much.... lots of insight.... which is exactly what I need at this stage. So bee-keeping seems to be in at the moment? OK, noted. I was planning less than a hectare to buy anyways.
Maybe my 2nd property could be an apartment in Budapest then? As some additional income? How much could I lease a 1-2 bedroom apartment in Budapest?
Do any of you know about "Aquaponics"? If not, check it out on YouTube.
As this was another one of my ideas.
paulscotland is offline  
Old Jan 26th 2015, 7:35 pm
  #11  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 568
jetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

One thing we have found and had confirmed today is that if you register to be an őstermelő (small farmer/producer) you will have to pay HUF60000 a month for the first year and after that tax etc is worked out from production and profit. However this is national insurance, health, tax and national pension so covers everything. But, something to budget for and be aware of.

For the bees it does seem to require quite a lot of specialist knowledge and to be a member of the national bee keeping association. Also to be aware of disease and up to date with areas that you can't move the bees into or out of due to disease risk. For the bees that is. You will need Hungarian to deal with neighbours and landowners if you keep bees as you require permission to set them up on farmland etc and it's good to inform people as in spring and summer they can be pretty active...... Though in my opinion it is a socially and environmentally responsible form of animal husbandry as they are very important for crop and wild plant pollination. We have plans for trying at least to get semi self-sufficient in veg which my wife being a qualified horticulturalist has interesting ideas about compact kitchen gardens.....

Last edited by jetsam1; Jan 26th 2015 at 8:46 pm.
jetsam1 is offline  
Old Jan 27th 2015, 6:31 am
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561
mawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this pointmawood47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Originally Posted by jetsam1
One thing we have found and had confirmed today is that if you register to be an őstermelő (small farmer/producer) you will have to pay HUF60000 a month for the first year and after that tax etc is worked out from production and profit. However this is national insurance, health, tax and national pension so covers everything. But, something to budget for and be aware of.

For the bees it does seem to require quite a lot of specialist knowledge and to be a member of the national bee keeping association. Also to be aware of disease and up to date with areas that you can't move the bees into or out of due to disease risk. For the bees that is. You will need Hungarian to deal with neighbours and landowners if you keep bees as you require permission to set them up on farmland etc and it's good to inform people as in spring and summer they can be pretty active...... Though in my opinion it is a socially and environmentally responsible form of animal husbandry as they are very important for crop and wild plant pollination. We have plans for trying at least to get semi self-sufficient in veg which my wife being a qualified horticulturalist has interesting ideas about compact kitchen gardens.....
Jetsam If you require further information on knowing more on watt grown and how can be produced send a PM and will gladly give answers to all digger47
mawood47 is offline  
Old Jan 27th 2015, 11:37 am
  #13  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 232
llareggub is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Good luck to you, fruit and veg self sufficiency is possible on a relatively modest plot of land, we have a plot of 5,500m2 and have been largely self sufficient on fruit & veg for nigh on 7 years... It is a hard work for a former desk jockey though
llareggub is offline  
Old Jan 29th 2015, 3:47 pm
  #14  
I bite my thumb at thee
 
Rural Hungary's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,479
Rural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond reputeRural Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Owning a smallholding/farm? and how many properties can i buy?

Originally Posted by paulscotland
Thank you so much.... lots of insight.... which is exactly what I need at this stage. So bee-keeping seems to be in at the moment? OK, noted. I was planning less than a hectare to buy anyways.
Maybe my 2nd property could be an apartment in Budapest then? As some additional income? How much could I lease a 1-2 bedroom apartment in Budapest?
Do any of you know about "Aquaponics"? If not, check it out on YouTube.
As this was another one of my ideas.
I met with a couple about 18 months ago who were looking into Aquaponics, they came on the forum a couple of times though not sure if they are still about
Rural Hungary is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.