rainee

Hi I have bought a house in north Hungary, it needs a lot of work, I have had some work done using the agent who sold me the house, I have to pay him for this service OV, he has sent a quote though for new windows and doors but it seems high, can anyone help with this?

duztee

I replaced all the old windows for modern pvc double glazed units which were made in Germany, this was in 2012. (the exchange rate then was around the same as it is now, approx 360/370 fts per £).
I had 16 windows, 8 were 860 x 1440, the rest were 2350 x 1440. and 4 exterior doors.

There was a 2 week wait for the units to be delivered from the manufacturer, then a 10 man crew descended on the house and in one 12 hour day they removed all the old windows and doors and fitted the new units, including plastering and making good, this included taking away all the old units.
Total cost was 450,000 fts or somewhere in the region of £1,300.
Which considering the number of new windows and doors and a 10 man labour force seemed ridiculously cheap to me at the time, now I am more used to the Hungarian way of using cheap cash in hand labour.

As an example and in case your property may also need one, I have just had a complete new roof fitted.
It was not old, but was built using very poor quality tiles which were breaking up and fragmenting every winter due to the freezing of water which seeped into the tiles. In common with roof design here there was no secondary barrier or insulation, so the water ingress had also rotted the woodwork.
Fitting a complete new roof including all the wooden structure, new tiles, waterproof membrane and insulation plus new drain pipes. and also included a large area of T&G cladding to the underside of balcony and outside sitting area.
Total roof area is 250 square metres.
Total cost was 2,800,000 fts or approx £7,600
Work force of 6 men for 7 working days.

If it helps I would advise against using an agent if you can avoid it, I found my roofer by looking around town and then asked the owner of a recently restored roof if he was happy with the work and if he would recommend the person, he did and I have to agree the quality of the work was exceptionally good. I did have to wait 2 months until he was available.
The price also included disposing of the old tiles, two trailer loads.
The old wood I cut up for burning, and I recouped 11,000 fts in scrap value for the old guttering.

And finally as a total irrelevance, Hungarians always hang so many net curtains in there windows they can't see anything through them anyway! :-)

rainee

Thank you for your detailed reply it is very helpful to hear about others experiences, I am replacing 3 doors and 5 windows, these are being handmade by a local carpenter so I appreciate will cost more than off the shelf however 2.005 000huf seems very high even with installing and painting included, i'm unsure if this includes locks. I do not live there full time and as yet do not speak Hungarian so I feel reliant on the agent's help, also it has taken quite a search to get a carpenter to come over and give a quote, apparently most tradesmen go into Budapest to work. I have connected with a family who I have bought some furniture from, I will e-mail them and see if they can advise.

hobgoblins

As Duztee said, try to avoid the agent … agents are only interested in what they can cream off for themselves !!
I needed a section of water pipe replacing and the agent sent his plumber along who brought a helper with him … took them less than an hour to replace the one meter section of piping and they charged me nearly £50. A few months later, my neighbour brought his plumber around to introduce him to me as I will need the house fitting with new plumbing later …. he said that the plumber the agent sent around previously was a near criminal for charging what he did !! He then quoted me £200 to do the whole house !
​​​​​​​Neighbours are very valuable people to get to know !!

scrubbedexpat142

Remove 11# 45 x 150 bolted & welded window grills. Remove 1 # 180 x 60 window grill. Remove, renovate & refit 1 # 90 x 60 window grill. Remove & renovate (off site) 15 # 45 x 150 outer windows. Remove, renovate (off site) 12 # 45 x 150 wooden roller shutters, each with 60 slats, & refit. Make good all holes left by grills (12 each), repair other elements of damaged external rendering, repaint all window sills, rebuild front door step, replace 30 x 45 floor tile inside. Clean up & remove all debris.

All for sum of 535,000 Fts, 5 man days on site plus unknown labour content off site.

And that's in Budapest.
​​​​​​

rainee

Getting ripped off is not nice especially when you feel you have got to know someone, the village I have bought in is quite remote not any neighbours, I will attach the quote here if someone could look at it and tell me what they think.

scrubbedexpat142

6 Windows & 3 Doors (not 5 & 3). For custom made units I would say expensive but not a rip off. Would expect all ironmongery & fittings in that price and a high quality of materials & workmanship.

duztee

The problem is with Hungarian house builders, they tend to treat plans as a rough guide, hence windows will be put where ever the nearest complete block ends. so there is no standard size, with the consequence that replacement windows in-veritably have to be custom made. and custom made in wood will certainly be more costly.
I can understand the problems of owning a property distant to your residence.
Is it possible to just make the place secure for now and leave arranging any work until you can take sufficient holiday to be present.

The one thing I have found with Hungarian workers is they need to be supervised to do a good job without scrimping or shortcuts.
You may not have a clue what they are doing but believe me sitting in a deck-chair watching certainly improves their performance.
Also a lot of the trades people you will need will probably be doing the work as a second job or hobby.
My roofer has a full time job at the local car plant. the guy who made my new gates and car port works full time at a food factory, the plumber and electrician likewise have full time jobs and do work for me (and probably many others) as a sideline,

Final point, speaking Hungarian doesn't stop you being a foreigner!
I have a good friend who is the local teacher, so she knows all the kids, all the ex pupils from years gone by and all their parents, any and all work that I require is generally arranged by her and being well known and liked results in 'Mates Rates' and of course it is all cash in hand, which is not as 'iffy' as it seems since they are all local and know they we will be knocking on their door if we find any faults in a year or two's time. But that is the way it works here, This is not England!

scrubbedexpat142

- Where "Mates rates" & "cash in hand" have been the scourge of the building industry - for years!

rainee

Its supposed to be 5 windows, I don't mind cash in hand 27% VAT is a bit steep, thank you for all responses

Pilis Nemzeti Park Fella

Well, he's inviting you to save the 27%, you just need to ask. I don't think HUF 1.5m is a rip-off tbh, if it's custom made to a good standard.

rainee

2.005 000huf not 1.5, I will ask if he will take off the VAT

scrubbedexpat142

But it's not 2005,000 - that quote is for 9 items, not 8, which item needs to come off?

duztee

Using the prices quoted and scaling up for my larger windows etc. I would have had to pay over 9 million instead of under half a million, Really glad I didn't go with custom made wood!

Peter_in_Hungary

rainee - a very quick dip into the internet choosing one of your window sizes and comparing your price with 2 web sites showed a 20% cheaper price for standard sized windows, although one site did say (in bold type) that custom sizes were not charged extra. Is fitting included in the price? So it might be worth looking around.

duztee - when you scaled up do you do so by scaling up the m2 because windows are usually priced by the linear of the perimeter (the cost of the frame) and the m2 of the glass. A lot of (smaller) window manufactures will sub out the glass units and I know one who subs out both the glass and the painting.