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Land/Plot measurements

Land/Plot measurements

Old Jan 5th 2021, 2:26 pm
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Default Land/Plot measurements

Boldo uj evet.
How is land/plot measurement calculated in Hungary?

I've seen a plot of land for sale. It's 2,300 sq.m. according to the Elado sign! Looking at the length and width it looks similar size to my mother-in-law's plot which is 600 sq.m. A friend who knows the owner mentioned the plot is 640 sq.m.

Looking at the local council land mapping 2,300 sq.m. would mean the boundary at the end goes much much further but the local mapping I've been looking at shows some properties seem to have extended their plots. The price seems right for 640 sq.m.

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Old Jan 5th 2021, 3:50 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

There was a thread recently on here about surveys and boundaries if I remember correctly. IF you are considering the purchase of a plot please have a proper survey conducted. It was about a guy who purchased a property and the fence was in the wrong place and there was troubles with a neighbor that thought the guy was trying to take more land than was his because he either was a schemer or just assumed the boundary was at the fence.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by Jack_Russells4ever
There was a thread recently on here about surveys and boundaries if I remember correctly. IF you are considering the purchase of a plot please have a proper survey conducted. It was about a guy who purchased a property and the fence was in the wrong place and there was troubles with a neighbor that thought the guy was trying to take more land than was his because he either was a schemer or just assumed the boundary was at the fence.
Yes, I just remembered that. The local council land/plot mapping is a good starting point but once we decide there's potential, will request copies of the plot from the owner, check for any discrepancies and get a land survey to confirm all the existing fencing is in the correct place. Might have a full walkaround it tomorrow.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by FenTiger
Yes, I just remembered that. The local council land/plot mapping is a good starting point but once we decide there's potential, will request copies of the plot from the owner, check for any discrepancies and get a land survey to confirm all the existing fencing is in the correct place. Might have a full walkaround it tomorrow.
Go to your local Land Office (you might have to make an appointment due to Covid) From the address you should be able to look at the Land Registry document for the place which will be noted by its plot number. This is the official statement of the size of the plot, after that you can look at the map of the plot to see the shape and location of the boundaries. The Land Registry document (Equivalent to the Deeds in England) will also give the owners name and any encumbrances or liens attached to the property. The Land Registry document regarding a plot is the legal statement about the plot and anything stated there is taken to be correct as far as the Law is concerned.

A lot of property in Hungary has historical baggage. The fact that someones fence is in a certain place or that they use a bit of land at the end of their garden as grazing, orchard or veggie plot doesn't guarantee they own it. Check it out in the Land Office. It is free to look (and it is public information) but costs if you want something printed. Officially measuring the plot can be expensive so get an idea first by pacing it out or with a long tape measure.

Is there a house of any condition on the plot? Is the plot within the village boundaries? If not then infrastructure can be prohibitively expensive or impossible. If there is no house on the plot then check the local development plan to make sure you will be able to build on the plot.

Buying property here is buyer beware, solicitors don't do searches like in England - basically you have to do your own.
Usually only one solicitor is used for property purchase (paid for by the purchaser), they draw up the contracts for both parties. Their job is to ensure the contract is legal, it is not their job to protect either side!
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 6:09 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

The "plot" might consist of two parts:
Those 640 square meters inside the village plus agricultural space.
The hint you got is right. I think it was an Austrian ruler who introduced the "Grundbuch" here which contains all info.
Like if the owner hasn't paid taxes it gets noted there.
PS:
You also have to be careful - as a foreigner, are you allowed to buy this?
We had a case where after the contract was sent to the office other (Hungarian) interested people might have bought this at the same price.
It can get very complicated - get a good lawyer!
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 11:04 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by wolfi
The "plot" might consist of two parts:
Those 640 square meters inside the village plus agricultural space.
The hint you got is right. I think it was an Austrian ruler who introduced the "Grundbuch" here which contains all info.
Like if the owner hasn't paid taxes it gets noted there.
PS:
You also have to be careful - as a foreigner, are you allowed to buy this?
We had a case where after the contract was sent to the office other (Hungarian) interested people might have bought this at the same price.
It can get very complicated - get a good lawyer!
In Hungary you have foreigners, EU citizens and Hungarians. Foreigners can buy residential plots only, EU members and Hungarians can buy residential plots and agricultural land if they are qualified as Land Users. Thanks to Brexit guess where Brits now sit !
The right to buy (by someone else) only applies to agricultural land (unless it is in joint ownership where the other owner(s) also have the right to buy)
If it is agricultural land if you are not a registered land user you are limited to owning 1ha. If a couple buy the land between themselves then it is combined 2ha.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 4:55 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

I'm feeling quite frustrated because similar threads have come up on here before and from those posts I've gleaned knowledge, awareness and know-how but it's been proving difficult to move anything forward. Sometimes I get the impression no one listens to me when I try to explain about things I've learnt from this forum. Instead too much talking goes on, too many unnecessary phone calls are made and nothing happens. I suppose at the end of the day some people are good at finding out information, taking action, getting things moving and others absolutely hopeless! A very good deaf local couple have been a great help, took me to buy a car, helped replace roof tiles, removed multiple tree stumps, converted gazebo to car port, drove us around the village to look for 'Elado' signs, etc.
I will mention to my wife about where we can get the plot details from. She will mention to her sister-in-law but I think we will be better off doing it ourselves.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 5:24 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by FenTiger
I'm feeling quite frustrated because similar threads have come up on here before and from those posts I've gleaned knowledge, awareness and know-how but it's been proving difficult to move anything forward. Sometimes I get the impression no one listens to me when I try to explain about things I've learnt from this forum. Instead too much talking goes on, too many unnecessary phone calls are made and nothing happens. I suppose at the end of the day some people are good at finding out information, taking action, getting things moving and others absolutely hopeless! A very good deaf local couple have been a great help, took me to buy a car, helped replace roof tiles, removed multiple tree stumps, converted gazebo to car port, drove us around the village to look for 'Elado' signs, etc.I will mention to my wife about where we can get the plot details from. She will mention to her sister-in-law but I think we will be better off doing it ourselves.
The joys of being an expat living here in Hungary. We have to remember as expats that things are not always logical here nor do they always make any sense. I love it here in Hungary as I am certain many of us do but as non citizen residents here we need to have patience, we need to be skeptical about everything we are told by those with a vested interest to sell us properties and services. We must look out for ourselves before turning over our monies to someone. I think most Hungarians are honest and well meaning but many of them do not always know the laws about property and contracts here in Hungary.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 6:09 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Jack_Russels4ever - you are spot on. I love it here too. I don't miss the UK at all except Match of the Day!
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

I think I have got to the bottom of the plot size.

2.300 sq.m. is correct. Confusion happened because my wife told me her mother's plot is 600 sq.m. but it is actually 600 squares (600 x egy öl). Egy öl = 1.89x1.89 = 3.6 sq.m . So 2.300 sq.m. divided by 3.60 sq.m. = 640 öl(squares).
Still going to the office to get information. Things were getting a bit heated between me and the wife. I'm the mathematician and worked in management accounting for 37 years so knew there must be a logical explanation, a formula or measurement used to arrive at 640.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by FenTiger
I think I have got to the bottom of the plot size.

2.300 sq.m. is correct. Confusion happened because my wife told me her mother's plot is 600 sq.m. but it is actually 600 squares (600 x egy öl). Egy öl = 1.89x1.89 = 3.6 sq.m . So 2.300 sq.m. divided by 3.60 sq.m. = 640 öl(squares).
Still going to the office to get information. Things were getting a bit heated between me and the wife. I'm the mathematician and worked in management accounting for 37 years so knew there must be a logical explanation, a formula or measurement used to arrive at 640.
I had to get my land surveyed because I wanted to build a sewage holding tank on the property. My son drew up the original plan for the tank then took it along to The Land Registry Office in Encs where one of the surveyors checked it and added it to the plot an accurate copy that they already had.

Are you absolutely sure the plot is 2300 sq m because if I'm correct that's approximately half an acre? I have 2673 sq m of land and looking at photos of your MIL's house and plot it doesn't appear to be nearly that much.


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Old Jan 6th 2021, 9:22 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by Sachina
I had to get my land surveyed because I wanted to build a sewage holding tank on the property. My son drew up the original plan for the tank then took it along to The Land Registry Office in Encs where one of the surveyors checked it and added it to the plot an accurate copy that they already had.

Are you absolutely sure the plot is 2300 sq m because if I'm correct that's approximately half an acre? I have 2673 sq m of land and looking at photos of your MIL's house and plot it doesn't appear to be nearly that much.
Mother-in-law's plot is split into two parts. First part from roadside fence to middle of garden fence is 30 metres. There's another 30 metres from middle to end of garden.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by FenTiger
I think I have got to the bottom of the plot size.

2.300 sq.m. is correct. Confusion happened because my wife told me her mother's plot is 600 sq.m. but it is actually 600 squares (600 x egy öl). Egy öl = 1.89x1.89 = 3.6 sq.m . So 2.300 sq.m. divided by 3.60 sq.m. = 640 öl(squares).
Still going to the office to get information. Things were getting a bit heated between me and the wife. I'm the mathematician and worked in management accounting for 37 years so knew there must be a logical explanation, a formula or measurement used to arrive at 640.
The öl is the old measurement of land, m2 are used now. It is actually a fathom and the land area measurement in full is a négyszögöl sometimes shortened to öl so the area measurement of the plot in question is 640 square fathoms
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
The öl is the old measurement of land, m2 are used now. It is actually a fathom and the land area measurement in full is a négyszögöl sometimes shortened to öl so the area measurement of the plot in question is 640 square fathoms
Fathoms - that makes sense.
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Old Jan 7th 2021, 7:50 am
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Default Re: Land/Plot measurements

Originally Posted by FenTiger
Fathoms - that makes sense.
Doesn't it just - takes me back to my days of using admiralty charts before they ruined them by making then coloured and changing sea depths to meters.
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