House Hunting Questions
 

Hello everyone.

We sold up in Italy in 2020 and have finally made the decision to look for a new place in Hungary. Our aim is to find a good family sized property in a rural location with a bit of land which we could use initially for elongated holidays of up to the allowed 180 days per year, with an eventual aim of gaining residency on retirement (is that even possible for non EU citizens..?)

Three years on from our Italian house sale and with so much which has changed in the world since then we find ourselves to be completely out of the European property game, and as we are right at the beginning as complete newbies to Hungary and all things Hungarian, we know nothing whatsoever about the house buying process there, or even where and how to look.

Therefore I would like to ask in the first instance for recommendations on property websites and/or estate agents, as well as how we should proceed in finding a good English speaking solicitor for our purchase.

For an initial look around we are planning a trip for the first two weeks in October and aim to base ourselves probably around the western end of Lake Balaton from where we will travel around in our search on a radius of say around 60-80 miles from base in any direction. We need information on pitfalls, legal quirks, such as inherited debt on sold properties (which was a very real issue in Italy) property scams, possible complications, taxes, general buyer requirements for property purchase - ie would we need a Hungarian bank account, fiscal code, or anything else..? As I say we know nothing and are right at the beginning, so any help or guidance would be especially welcome at this stage. We do at least have the advantage of having owned property abroad before - we had the place in Italy for 16 years - so are not so naive as to go into the process with any kind of fairytale pie in the sky romantic ideals about it, and know pretty much in general terms of what to expect in the real world, but obviously we need to know specifics. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Jake, welcome to the Hungary sub Forum on BE.. I am not sure it is allowed to recommend estate agents via the Forum but I will include a link to a site that has a lot of different properies listed by agents and you can contact them for yourself.

https://ingatlan.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjw...hoCdUEQAvD_BwE

You do not have to be a citizen of a EU country to retire here in Hungary or to purchase non agricultural property. What you will need is proof of Health coverage, an adequate provable income to sustain yourself . I am not certain of the current requiredincome level but it used to be £1000 per month when we moved here in 2017. I do not think that number has been increased but maybe someone with more recent information will chime in. To get residency you will need proof of accomomdation (a lease or rental agreement contract valaid for 12 or more months signed by the property owner or proof of property ownership.

There can be issues with debts staying with property when sold plus ownership issues when there are multiple owners such as from an estate being sold by children of a deceased parent etc etc. A reputable estate solicitor should be able to sort that out before you make a contract to purchase. I would caution you against purchasing wine houses or seasonal houses because if they do not have a legal address you will encounter issues getting a residence permit. If they haave what is considered a legal address (IE they are located in a village or city you will probably be purchasing a property with a legal address.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Thanks for that. I'll have a look at the link. I take it from what you say in your post that agricultural property is out. How about a smallholding..? or at least a house with a big (ish) plot of land. We had two+ acres in Italy and would hope to find something along the same lines as a minimum, but having cruised around today on various websites I find that most of the properties for sale that I looked at seem to be in village streets with immediate neighbours either side and a pretty small plot of land, whereas we'd be looking for isolated, or at least reasonably detached from the nearest neighbours, along with a sizeable plot.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Jake, you can find many smallholdings located within villages. I purchased a former tanya (farm property) with 4200 m2 land, a barn old farmhouse and a couple other agricultural buildings. I have seen some of these sort of properties listed with 10,000m2 of land so if a smallholding is your desire you can find them.

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Excellent. Thanks again. I did find one with slightly more than 10 000 sq metres just after I posted that so it's good to know that sizeable places are available.

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Big plots are available but very few of them. Buying an isolated or separated place will probably mean outside a village which in Hungary has different regs. and infrastructure will almost certainly limited. e.g.poor electricity supply, no gas, possibly no mains water, no mains drainage, no proper phone line or mobile connection - all of which we 'benefit' from living outside a village.

As you will have seen village properties have a plot size typically between 1000m2 and 2500m2. If you want something substantially bigger then I suspect compromises in other wants will have to be made with location being the main compromise.

As a foreigner buying agricultural land will be difficult and restricted and when I last checked it was limited to less than 10,000m2 which further limits your purchase options (buying jointly can increase this I believe) but plots in villages are usually not classified as agricultural but then separation from neighbours might be the issue.

With the amount of agricultural land you are allowed to purchase you will not be able to build new because you can't buy enough land to get planning permission for a new build. (If you had considered that route).

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Thanks Peter. I was gradually forming that impression from looking at the various websites, although I've seen a few houses with plots of around 5000 sq m which would possibly be enough for us. Definitely NOT looking at the new build route - we prefer older and more traditional.!
I'll scour round all the little villages in the area we'll be visiting in October and hopefully come back with a few ideas. It's always best to be on the ground to carry out a search in my experience.

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Unless the older house has been renovated (in which case it will probably be v.expensive) then expect some (or lots) restoration will be needed i.e. questionable roof, little to no insulation etc.

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Thanks again. It would be pleasant to find a place which was fully done and which we could just move into, but in practical terms I would probably expect to find somewhere which needed at least some work to be carried out. Most of the places we looked at in Italy all those years ago were in a right state and needed loads doing, and I pretty much expect the same again.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Also be aware if you need workmen to carry out renovations, you have to book them several months in advance.

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Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

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Jake, wish you the best!
Before we moved to the Danube to be nearer our young ones in Budapest I had bought a house in Zala county, not too far from the Balaton, ver nice.
Like many other houses in the village the ground had 3 paers with frnces between them. The first part (for the dog and the cars) and second part (originally for the hens) were of the village proper - the part behind was agricultural. Of course we rented that out for a nominal sum to one of the neighbours, but we could have used this ourself to plant corn eg.
But generally you have to be careful and sure that your ground is part of the village proper with all the amenities - water, electricity, gas ...
And also the postal service needs an address!

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Cheers. Very much looking forward to our first trip there in October. We'll be making it a road trip for extra adventure..!

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Jake
Are you looking for a small holding - that is a place that can produce crops for income or self sufficiency with the infrastructure to do that or do you just want a nice big plot and is within a village a non-starter. (I know of a small holding but it is within a village)

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Either or really. Smallholding or house with big plot. We already grow much of our own veggies, potatoes etc here in the UK, and we also keep chickens so would like to expand a little bit on that to grow most of our own stuff, have more chickens and possibly a goat or two if space will allow

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

I paid for our house two years ago from my UK bank account. It wasn't the best exchange rate. I've no idea if the rules have changed since.

Sachina is correct in saying you have to book builders months in advance. For smaller jobs it's handy to have a good friend who knows someone who can do the job. We are in a village of 4,000 just south of Miskolc. My wife is Hungarian, her family lives in same village and we have many friends, including neighbours of my deceased parents-in-law so we ask them if they know someone who can do something.

If you need a surveyor to survey a property that's almost impossible to do. You need good contacts and expect most of them will probably work in the bigger cities. We relied on my sister-in-law friend, an experienced estate agent. He's done up his own home and holiday home but despite an invitation to go see them we haven't.

Who will look after your rural property when you are all back in the UK? Some Brits have a friendly neighbour to look after it when they are away. If you are going to be growing your own vegetables and fruits you would need to have all the gardening stuff. I assume you'll bring over what you had in Italy. It might not be there after you've left the property empty when returning to UK.

Autumn can be very dull and grey so don't expect anywhere to look pretty. If you don't want your car footwell covered in mud take your wellies. You might need them or you might not.

Not many Hungarians in rural areas speak English. Those that do speak English very quietly!!!

If you are going to use a building company to do any work on your property lock away your own tools and equipment. Also any stuff you've boxed up. When we had builders here last year to build a verandah one labourer kept rummaging through our boxed up stuff. One morning I found an electric radio on a shelf in our garage. That was in a box the day before! The same guy asked to borrow my mountain bike to go to the shop. That's a five minute walk! Keep an eye on the builders to make sure they are doing as agreed and not what they think is best.

Property boundary - make sure you check exactly what you are buying. If any fencing seems to be in the wrong place get it checked before you buy and if in the wrong place sort it out legally.

Driving - probably same as in Italy and anywhere else there's some very bad drivers here.

Property prices - they are on the up. Some properties are ridiculously way over their real value.

We have been here for three years and arrived in the middle of the covid pandemic. We brought our dog over too and he travelled in a luxury Mercedes MPV with a lady driver, staying in pet friendly hotel for two nights.

Good luck.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

My wife and I live in a small village in NE Hungary and also have a weekend house in the hills near Eger.
We are in the process of trying to buy the property next door to our weekend house but it's turning out to be a much longer and more difficult process than we imagined. The land is just over 1,000m2 and is classed as agricultural, (also known as having a gold crown on it), although it is just a completely overgrown garden with a tiny house on it. Because of the agricultural classification, I, as a UK citizen can't buy it and it has to be solely in my wife's name as she has dual citizenship. Not only that but it has to be put on the open market for 30 days first, at the agreed selling price, incase anyone with the correct agricultural certification wants to buy it. They have first chance, before us. If, after 30 days, no-one comes forward, then we can continue with the sale. Just something else to be aware of.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

That's a bummer considering the state of the property next to your weekend house.

Back in October 2022 I considered buying a weekend house in Mályi-to but a local friend had dropped a strong hint he wouldn't do any work on it for me! That didn't really worry me because we know others who could do any works on it. I pulled out because I realised if we did buy it how often would we use it? And we'd just spent alot of money on a new verandah with access from the lounge and kitchen. Another reason to pull out is I did not want to get involved with the hassle who could use the weekend house. There'd be some sulking when they'd be told 'No!'.

Sorry, I gone off topic!

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

I would recommend you also consider other regions of Hungary. I live in North Eastern Hungary where property is less expensive and plot sizes tend to be larger.

You can usually find someone who speaks English and Hungarians are very accommodating, realising how difficult their language is. Last year though I conversed with the builder doing work on my house entirely using Google translate on our mobiles. Admittedly some of the translations caused a lot of laughter!

I bought my house on a 2673 sq metre lot 17 years ago from the Company named below.

I had excellent service from Ferenz who speaks excellent English.

https://www.hungarianhousesforsale.c...hungary-houses

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

I recommend if someone has decided to purchase a property here in Hungary or anywhere for that matter to visit the village or city without the estate agent after viewing a property you think may be the one you want to make an offer on. I would visit the village on a Weekend and you will get a better idea of what the village is really like. IE noises from villagers, their dogs, chickens and farm animals, strimmers, mowers and the local pubs and any military bases if the property is near one. Bear in mind Hungary is not the UK and the fact that we outsiders are bothered by noise will not change when they run their chainsaws and trimmers or make other noises at a time we may not appreciate. I had a visitor a few years ago have an utter fit because a neighbour was cutting their grass at 7am on a Saturday morning. I told them Hungarians do what they want without regard for what bothers their neighbours or what was not allowed back in the UK. I have been here 7 years and the noise does not bother me at all.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Good advice there ! The first time I came to Hungary house hunting, I brought along a Hungarian work colleague and we went to the first house on the list that the agent had for sale ... nice village with very friendly residents including quite a few Roma who, according to my colleague, were very pleasant and intrigued that a foreigner was looking at a house in their village ! After the agent arrived and viewing the house, we were leaving and there was a gaggle of Roma mothers with their children who all began chanting "chocolate, chocolate" ... a warning of things to come if I bought that house, I thought !!
Grass cutting and chainsaws at dawn ... absolutely normal !!

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

I'm lucky that I visited Hungary nearly every year and sometimes at Christmas and new year if I could get away from my work commitments. Most of the places we went to were in the North and between Budapest and Miskolc.
My Hungarian wife wanted to live in our village to be close to her parents and sister & family, as well as local friends. I was open to other villages but had to think if I dropped dead my wife would be stuck in a village she didn't want to live. She stopped driving ten years ago so not an option. We are in a good part of the village with nearby supermarket, fruit and veg roadside stalls. Bus stops are not too far to walk.

In our village there are some plots around 2,000m2. My deceased parents-in-law property being one of them but the house needs demolishing! There's very few between 3,000 - 4,000m2.

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Garage - ours is too small for our Skoda Kodiaq and also our previous car, Suzuki SX4 S-Cross so this is something to think about if a garage is important.

Seems here most car owners have a car port.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

Lots of interesting comments and food for thought above - thanks to all. The hassles, pitfalls and bureaucracy sound much the same as those we experienced in Italy, not to mention the chainsaws at dawn and the barking dogs howling at the moon.

The presence of Roma and the reputation they have, as well as some previous personal experience with them does cause me some concern, and their presence in a village could well be a make or break factor for me. Likewise, surveyors, estate agents and builders etc - I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt with all of them so nothing new there..

On one memorable occasion in Italy I had all of my windows replaced, but the window fitters refused to fill in all the gaping holes they had made and left around the window frames. When I asked them why they wouldn't do it the answer was simple if somewhat infuriating : "We don't do cement..!"

I couldn't care less about chainsaw noise at dawn or animal noises through the night, and when I was in Italy I would often find myself out pruning the olives at first light and joining in with the general early morning cacophony around pruning time. I was also regulary woken up at dawn through the hunting season by shotgun blasts going off at 5 or 6am on a daily basis. None of that stuff bothers me, but the overblown bureaucracy and potential for crime does. I had my entire house cleared out once in Italy, including all the kitchen units, washing machine, furniture bicycles, tools, etc. It was like a house clearance had been undertaken and I would prefer to avoid that kind of thing in the future if at all possible.

Another time a builder working in the next garden came and asked me for a drink of water and if he could borrow a spirit level. I obliged, but that night someone came snooping around and cut the supply cables to my security lights and tried to break in to my shed. Coincidence..? I think not.

So, once again, thanks for all the comments and food for thought above. We're still going over for a visit in October so we'll get a better idea if it's for us or not after the trip.

I will report back with my findings.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

One thing I forgot to mention was the sellers of the property I bought wanted each owners share to be paid separately. That was 50% to the mother and the balance split equally between the two daughters. I've no idea if this is standard practice. Had there been four or five siblings I wouldn't be very happy!
If you are a cash buyer you are in a strong position compared to someone who needs to get a mortgage.

One property we were interested in ended up in a bidding war between three parties. I was only prepared to pay so much and left the other two to fight it out.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

One tip I did receive when house hunting is to check out the village church first ... if it is tidy and well maintained, all is good but if not, be wary ! In my particular village, there has been one house break in and that was 25 years or so ago, a house that is used only for holidays by the owners. The young lads that were caught only broke in looking for alcohol and that was all they had taken ... my Hungarian neighbour is always amused when I lock my garden gate when I go out ... !!

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..... my Hungarian neighbour is always amused when I lock my garden gate ......

I blame all those Hollywood movies glamourising how easy it is to pick a lock!

Ours is locked 24/7 ...... I wish other property owners did the same to stop their dog/s escaping!

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

The Land office (UK equivalent Land Registry) with one in every large town serving the local area has information about all the properties, owners, debts attached, type of property, size of the plot, rights of way affecting the property or any other encumbrance together with maps of each property etc. and it is all public information which is free to view but costs (not much) if you want anything printed.

Property boundaries can be measured out by a Land measurer who will mark out the boundary +/- 5cm. Unless there is a gross discrepancy with actual vs. Land office map not worth doing until you have bought it and want to check fence lines etc. A quick check will be measurements from the house to the boundaries checked against the Land Office map as the position of the house on the land Office map is usually correct.
In law what is registered in Land Office is taken to be correct

Property prices in this area (we are near Tapolca, N. side of Balaton) had silly price rises but seem to have stabilised lately. (I think they got to an unaffordable level) In this area some villages have 'fashion status' with prices to match.

Re: House Hunting Questions
 

I always keep my drive gate and walk gatse locked as well my gate that exits out the back of what I have fenced. The internal gates I only lock if I need to keep the dogs penned up when I have skilled workmen or guest here. My close neighbours and friends call me before coming over and most of the rest who turn up at my gate I ignore because they usually are looking for work but do not really want work they just want free money. I learned that quicky after moving here. now they don't bother stopping at the gate.

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I asked estate agent, family and friends about a surveyor or structural engineer several times and didn't get anywhere! The things I've asked about 9 times out of 10 I got a blank look. Even a bus timetable and bus fares drew a blank! Anyway, we've now got a good friend and his son, our plumbers, who I can ask about anything. He has good contacts too. He did a better and quicker job installing new CH system than the plumber employed for sister-in-law property. Ours was done within a week. Theirs on and off over 6 weeks!

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That's normal due to the inheritance laws they have in Hungary which is similar in many European countries such a France and Spain for example..

https://www.lawyershungary.com/inher...%20descendants.

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The purchase process has changed a bit for UK citizens (ie non EU post brexit), as part of the purchase process your lawyer will make an application for approval for the purchase with the local authority. It takes 4 to 6 weeks, there is a small fee about the equivalent of 50 pounds. It is a bit unclear what they check but for a normal property it is probably a rubber stamp. If you a buying some kind of historical property etc, it may get more scrutiny.
I live at the western end of Balaton, near Keszthely. Anywhere new to the lake is in high demand with the EU buyers so the prices are high, for example Cserszegtomaj which has bigger land sizes, is still very expensive, 300k plus euros, I did not notice if you had a budget, but having driven through Zala county to Zalaegerszeg it is beautiful rolling country side with plenty of wooded areas and smaller villages. But I am sure you will have a good look around when you visit.

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😮 a few days ago I saw a property for sale (kastely) in the north, in good condition, not needing renovation, 30 bedrooms, 8 (I think) bathrooms, 3.5ha for 99,000,000ft.
It depends what you want and where. There are also plenty of cheap farm houses further south.

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A selection of property for sale in the Balaton area.

https://www.hungarianhousesforsale.c...balaton-houses

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There are some great, well priced houses on there.
It's crazy how the house prices have rocketed here in Bükkszék in the last 3 or 4 years. Unfortunately, most are being bought as second homes or holiday lets which is not great for the local economy and people who live here permanently.

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It's very sad if houses are being bought as second homes because it means building more new houses for locals. I was born in Peterborough and it was chosen as an area for development. The countryside used to start where my primary school was. No more .....
In 50 years time I won't be surprised if Mályi merges with Nyekladhaza to become a new town!

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The population of Hungary is on the decline, especially in areas like Northern Hungary. Personally I would rather see the houses in my small village being bought as holiday homes than left to fall into such a state of disrepair that they're uninhabitable.

https://telex.hu/english/2023/03/10/...s-depopulation