Digger47
 

Evening all.

Just received news from Diggers daughter that Digger has suffered a bad stroke. It sounds like one side of his body is paralyzed and that he has a blood clot on the brain.

My understanding is that Digger is currently in the "Fejér Megyei Szent György Egyetemi Oktató Kórház II. Járóbeteg szakrendelő" hospital Székesfehérvár, Hunyadi u. 2, 8000 Hungary.

Beside the above I dont have any other information. Maybe someone fluent in Hungarian can give the hospital a call and get some first hand info and let us know more?

I have offered the family whatever assistance I can give. As it happens workmen are on site at my place at 8 am to lay gravel for the driveway and car park area, otherwise I would go up there. If they finish the gravel trap early then I may just go up anyway.

GBA

Re: Digger47
 

Best wishes to him. Hope he can make a good recovery from it.

Re: Digger47
 

I am very very sorry to read this. :( Have always liked to follow how Digger47 is doing and enjoyed his character.

Re: Digger47
 

I went to see Digger yesterday.

As to be expected he is not looking great. Its the right side which is paralized. He seems to have good movement on the left side. Seems to understand somethings and is aware of people.

His wife has to leave him shortly however his daughter is with him and arranging things. It would seem that they want to repatriate him back to the UK however he, like most of us, does not have travel/ medical insurance so I am unsure how they are going to arrange things.

Apparently the hospital say he is serious but stable and fit enough to travel!. I would beg to differ but them I am not a doctor. I think the hospital simple want to get him out of there.

This is the second time I have been into a Hungarian hospital, first as a patient and that frighted the bejeasus out of me, the second as a visitor. The level of medical care is WAY different to what we are used to.

The above is something which has certainly opened my eyes a lot wider than they were before and my advice, even if you have a Hungarian wife/spouse/partner or not, this medical situation especially as one grows older, REALLY needs very serious consideration before any decision is made to live here permanently or not.

In fact, I would say that anyone contemplating moving here permanently should take a visit to their local hospital and spend a few hours wondering around which seems easy to do, and see things for yourself.

If and when I receive any news on Diggers condition, I will post it.

Re: Digger47
 

Very sorry to hear about Digger, please give him our best if you see him again.

Re: Digger47
 

Best wishes for Digger from me too!
Life is cruel sometimes, let's hope for his recovery. I've had several friends with one side paralyzed more or less - there's always hope with this condition!

Re: Digger47
 

My Mother had a stroke a few years ago that initially left her paralysed down one side but which improved considerably, almost disappearing over time.

Let's hope Digger's condition goes the same way.

Re: Digger47
 

Very sorry to learn about Digger’s condition. :(

I think all expats as they grow older...should weigh up the options of healthcare in their adopted country vs the NHS.

Hope you make a speedy recovery Digger. :fingerscrossed:

Re: Digger47
 

+1
Stroke recovery is time, patience and a bit of determination.

For travel back to the UK - there is a difference between being medically capable of the journey (the hospitals view) and the ability to get insurance for the journey or the airline willing to take you on. However airlines - even the cheapo ones will take wheelchair passengers.

As for "expats as they grow older...should weigh up the options of healthcare in their adopted country vs the NHS."
good advice but my experience of the Hungarian NHS has been good with good treatment and none of the waiting times experienced in the UK. (OK once I had an appointment for a specialist 2 months out, but I saw the same Dr. privately for 6000HUF the following week - try that in the UK)

Oh and residential homes (outside of Budapest) cost just a bit more than the UK state pension and nursing homes or those that will take dementia patients a bit more, but you do have the language problem.

Back to the plot of this thread - get well soon Digger:fingerscrossed::thumbup:

Re: Digger47
 

From our limited experience here we can echo your comments Peter.

Again - all the best Digger!

Re: Digger47
 

I only met the man once. That was very recently for 2 1/2 days while we sorted the plumbing stuff out at that new place of his. Top class bloke. Clearly been around the block a good few times and can tell stories that can make you weep and P at the same time.

Have to admit that many a time I had to read his posts a good few times before I got the gist of some of them. That was with his good right hand. I can only imagine what will be with his left hand.

Re: Digger47
 

Peter. NO airline will take a patient 3/4 days after suffering a stroke. There is no way he can sit in a wheelchair. Unless you do like where he is at the mo, which is strap your arms to the bed to stop you moving around etc. Patient comfort Hungarian style.

The clot is still in his head. He had a scan on the first day and nothing after because he is showing signs of improvement! NOTHING I saw filled me with any sort confidence re the Hungarian medical system and or treatments.

The hospital may very well think someone in that condition is medically capable but if they had to action it, they could be culpable. Even if its Hungary.

Re: Digger47
 

Sorry to hear about Digger. If anyone here is close to him and would like to get more information about Digger's possible repatriation to the UK for treatment/care, a thread on the UK forum would attract the eye of some very knowledgeable people.

I'm pretty sure that Digger would have to pay all travel costs himself. Whether or not he's eligible to receive free NHS in-patient hospital treatment immediately on his arrival into the UK would very much depend on his residency status, ie is he habitually resident in Hungary or the UK.

Re: Digger47
 

As I said there is a difference between being medically capable of travel and actually getting an airline to do it.

And with regards to care in Hungary - look up Liverpool Care Pathway in the UK!

Across Europe each NHS has the same problems - the bucket of money is not big enough (nor will it ever be!!), eastern Europe perhaps suffers more than the west.

And yes patients arms are tied to beds - not strapped as far as I have ever seen but with bandages to stop patients pulling out drips and alike when they are not all together with it. A practical solution to nursing shortages - which the UK also suffers from despite having a lot of nurses from eastern Europe.

Meanwhile is there anything that we can do to help Digger?

Re: Digger47
 

My mum was put in the Liverpool Pathway. It has since ceased to be but doctors use similar for end of life patients. My MIL is going through this now.

Re: Digger47
 

Yes. I always felt he would be great to know.

Are the hospital giving him any medication.

I do feel that without good funds, it may be hard to repatriate him. From the very little I know , they would have to contact individual airlines for their policies on this.

Ambu-Trans offer free quotes for both air and road.

There does seem to be a possibility to do this by road which may be more suitable for a stroke patient.
Road Ambulance Repatriation Service

I am not sure if Digger47 is eligible for NHS care. I will ping someone in the know.

Re: Digger47
 

Bevs thanks for that. I have passed that lot and other info onto his daughter to consider.

As you said, the costs involved in any sort of repatriation are massive. As far as I am aware Digger was living full time in the UK and on the NHS for various reasons so there should be no reason why he could not be eligible for NHS care should he be repatriated.

Peter: Straps. Thick plastic looking ones. I am well aware of the Liverpool pathway. I had a wife who was placed on it.

Diggers daughter had the straps removed as it was causing him tremendous distress. Seeing the fellow in the bed next to Diggers, whilst I can understand the reasons why its done, the distress it causes is very clear to see. It does not make nice watching.

As regards current treatment I have no idea.

Peter you may very well be able to assist in something. I will PM you if thats ok?

Re: Digger47
 

GBA77 - I've sent you a PM
Peter

Re: Digger47
 

Cheers for that. I have replied.

Re: Digger47
 

Anyone know the workings of the EHIC?

Just received a text message now that apparently Diggers family have to start paying for his treatment soon as he only gets 2 weeks free treatment on the EHIC.

I found this link:

https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Health...inHungary.aspx

There is no mention of 2 weeks anywhere but I may have missed something.

Re: Digger47
 

FFS. Repatriations costs just came in. Around £20,000. Not as much as I thought it would be tbh but................

Re: Digger47
 

I think that the hospital have got it wrong!
From https://www.e111.org.uk/about.html
quote
The EHIC is normally valid for three to five years and covers any medical treatment that becomes necessary during your trip, because of either illness or an accident. The card gives access to state-provided medical treatment only, and you'll be treated on the same basis as an 'insured' person living in the country you're visiting. Remember, this might not cover all the things you'd expect to get free of charge from the NHS in the UK. You may have to make a contribution to the cost of your care.

And

It allows you to be treated on the same basis as a resident of the country you are visiting i.e. you may have to pay a patient contribution (also known as a co-payment). You may be able to seek reimbursement for this when you are back in the UK if you are not able to do so in the other country (and limited to the equivalent cost on the NHS).

end quote

the key statement IMO is
The card gives access to state-provided medical treatment only, and you'll be treated on the same basis as an 'insured' person living in the country you're visiting.
And Hungarians don't have to pay after 2 weeks.

Also healthcare provided under the EHIC is cross charged to the home country. (complaints are made in the UK about this because the NHS is notoriously bad at reclaiming this money (millions a year apparently))

Re: Digger47
 

An EHIC is only valid for someone visiting another EU/EEA country. If Digger was resident in Hungary then he would've needed to arrange to be covered by the Hungarian system.

Re: Digger47
 

From https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Health...countries.aspx

Your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) gives you the right to access state-provided healthcare at a reduced cost, or sometimes for free, on the same basis as a resident of that country.

Again quoted "on the same basis as a resident of that country."

If his EHIC was issued by the UK then it should be valid for Hungary

Re: Digger47
 

I can't see anything about 2 weeks either.

Under Health Services and Costs on the link you gave, it does mention being careful that you're not being treated as a private patient:

Hospital treatment
Just like in the UK, you'll need to be referred by a doctor for any hospital treatment. Make sure you are referred to a public hospital, as only these provide treatment free of charge. Even in a public hospital, ensure you have a valid EHIC and double-check you are not treated as a private patient.
During your stay in hospital, operations, diagnostic tests and medicines are provided free of charge.

Might pay for Digger's family to check that he's in a public hospital and being treated as a public patient, not private.

Re: Digger47
 

If a UK resident visiting Hungary becomes ill then their UK-issued EHIC would cover them on the same basis as if they were a Hungarian resident. If Digger was resident in Hungary then his UK-issued EHIC becomes null and void.

Re: Digger47
 

It could depend upon whether Digger is a pensioner.
From https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...r/index_en.htm
As a pensioner
If you do not receive a pension or any other income from the country where you live: you belong to the healthcare insurance system of the country where you were insured for the longest period of time.

This problem could get messy! more info needed.

Re: Digger47
 

If he was drawing a UK state pension and had Form S1 in place then he would be covered by that.

Re: Digger47
 

I look into the Hungary forum now and then as we did consider Hungary as 2nd home. Sorry to read about Digger although I don't know him. I've had experience with Austrian post stroke treatment which was excellent. Would it be possible to bring Digger to Austria if treatment could be covered under EHIC?
Trip to Austria would be less stressful and much cheaper. Once he is in a more stable condition he may be able to be taken back to UK by normal transport. Just a thought. All the best to Digger.

Re: Digger47
 

Thanks all.

Digger is a UK resident. He has a house there. He does not live full time in Hungary. He is on the NHS for various treatments etc. He also gets medication through the NHS. He is visiting Hungary and was/is due to return back to his home later this month. As far as I am aware he arrived in Hungary the back end of February/beginning March. He also receives various disability this and thats. I don't know all the ins and outs.

Peter. Any idea where I can get the Hungarian copy of the link? It may be a case of having to show the relevant person where there are going wrong. In the nicest possible way of course for obvious reasons.

Spouse of scouse. Thanks for that. I will suggest to Diggers daughter to check on the private vis a vis pleb hospital aspect you pointed out.

Jeez I have not had choir practice for a while. Thats not righteous.

Re: Digger47
 

Thairetired.

Most interesting. Any particular city/town/hospital/area to look at? PM me please if you don't want to post the details publicly.

I wonder how the Austrian health service will feel about things? Maybe ok if contact is made and things arranged properly.

Re: Digger47
 

Sounds like he should be covered by his EHIC then. As for repatriation, does he have travel insurance? Perhaps through a credit card or bank account? If he is a UK resident he could claim the cost of his repatriation to the UK if it proves necessary.

Re: Digger47
 

BIT.

Now theres a thought. Regarding the normal sort of travel insurance, the family are trying to look through his papers and things. It would appear as though most are at his home in England. I dont know the capability and availability of Diggers daughters husband who is looking into the paperwork.

Digger would have loads of pre-existing conditions to declare, so the run of the mill travel insurers would have told him to go away. That said, I have a few myself but found a specialist company which I used when I was traveling to Asia frequently.

Let me pass this info on.

Re: Digger47
 

Try these links
Az Európai Egészségbiztosítási Kártya - Foglalkoztatás, szociális ügyek és társadalmi befogadás - Európai Bizottság
and
European Health Insurance Card - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

both are EU documents which are the same just one is in Hungarian and the other is in English. the relavent paragraph is the first paragraph
Quote
What is the European Health Insurance Card?
A free card that gives you access to medically necessary, state-provided healthcare during a temporary stay in any of the 28 EU countries, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland, under the same conditions and at the same cost (free in some countries) as people insured in that country.
End quote

The Hungarian first paragraph says the same.

The hospital, full name = Fejér Megyei Szent György Egyetemi Oktató Kórház
translates as
Saint George University Teaching Hospital, Fejér County

So it is a teaching hoapitial and NHS but that does not mean that the hospitial may not be trying to fund raise at the expense of the family by putting Digger on to a private basis.

I presume Digger went in as a blue light experience so he would have gone in as a NHS paitent and sort the paperwork out later. I guess the hospitial administrators will need to be told (carefully) of the EHIC rules.

Re: Digger47
 

I'm not familiar with the Austrian-Hungarian border region towns as we spend our time in Salzburger Land. My friends where treated in Salzburg (Christian-Doppler- Klinik) and Schwarzach-St.Veit Hospital which would be quite far from Hungary. Healthcare in Austria is very good regardless of where you go. A larger district hospital, teaching hospital should be a good choice to look up.
Both our friends where treated on Ehic card from Germany. There was some small co-payment for treatment/drugs Germans didn't pay for.

Re: Digger47
 

I don't think that Digger can go to Austria to get treatment under the EHIC system because this would count as "health tourism" which the EU directive on cross border health care excludes (private treatment is a different matter).

Also the directive says that Digger should be able to get information about what exactly treatment is available to him.


DIRECTIVE 2011/24/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 9 March 2011

para 18......This Directive should not give any person an entitlement to enter, stay or reside in a Member State in order to receive healthcare in that State.

pare 20.............Member States of treatment should ensure that patients from other Member States receive on request the relevant information on safety and quality standards enforced on its territory as well as on which healthcare providers are subject to these standards. Furthermore, healthcare providers should provide patients on request with information on specific aspects of the healthcare services they offer and on the treatment options. To the extent that healthcare providers already provide patients resident in the Member State of treatment with relevant information on those specific aspects, this Directive should not oblige healthcare providers to provide more extensive information to patients from other Member States.

Re: Digger47
 

I also suspect there may be a problem going to Austria. However, our one friend who lives in the border area Germany/Austria but in Germany in a town with a hospital, was taken to Salzburg for treatment, later was sent back to Austria for rehab. All on German govt. healthcare, not private patient.
Can the family not get in touch with NHS to check what the options are? If Hungary cannot provide adequate treatment and the hospital wants him to leave, surely he should have an alternative to paying 20.000£ for Medevac to get repatriated. Valuable treatment time is going by...

Re: Digger47
 

Thanks for that Peter and Thairetired.

I have passed that info onto Diggers daughter. The family need to make the decisions etc.

Being an "outsider" one can only advise or assist so far. With limited finances and no travel insurance (the family say they have checked thoroughly) I fear that repatriation is probably outside the realms of possibility right now.

Brit in Paris. Good call on the credit card/bank account side of things. They say nothing doing on that front.

It may very well be that once Digger can sit in a wheel chair the flight options may become feasible (like Peter said). Convincing the airlines to accept him will of course be another story.

Re: Digger47
 

The airlines may want somebody suitably qualified to accompany him - and a fitness to fly statement.

Re: Digger47
 

Indeed but that would be a minor problem to sort.

I suppose then there is also the possibility of a road trip if he is well enough. Digger had some or other mobility company car for his use. I think it was a C max or something. Would have been ideal but it has been taken back. Diggers daughter cant/doesn't drive.

Valiums and a half bottle of whiskey and one stoned old chap in the back. Digger - The Movie.