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building your own house in hungary

building your own house in hungary

Old Oct 23rd 2020, 1:52 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Hi - as we are planning to build a house next year I have been reading through all the posts.
How have things been progressing?
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Old Oct 24th 2020, 12:59 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

did I miss this one ?? Have you given up looking for a house and decided to get a plot or build on the -in-laws plot ??
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Old Oct 24th 2020, 8:37 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
did I miss this one ?? Have you given up looking for a house and decided to get a plot or build on the -in-laws plot ??
Yes, given up on looking for a house. We viewed a property about a week ago. The house had a good layout but very small garden and we didn't feel it was the right area for us. So we have decided to build a new house on the in-laws land. Currently looking into planning rules. Should have gone to find out last Wednesday but wife wasn't feeling well enough. Hope to go on Wednesday which is the only day when the right person is there. Lot's of planning needs to go into this. Either we go for something which can be erected quickly or go down the traditional path. The latter seems best but will take longer.
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Old Nov 3rd 2020, 8:58 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by FenTiger View Post
Either we go for something which can be erected quickly or go down the traditional path. The latter seems best but will take longer.
When you are looking at construction methods the quick build methods e.g. timber frame need very good attention to detail that is lacking with most builders (both here and in the UK). Failure of the details (various air tight, vapour control and waterproofing layers) can result in either cold and expensive to heat houses (and hot in the summer) and / or structural failures due to rot in a few years.

I would go for a modified traditional build. e.g walls of 25cm porotherm blocks with 20cm EPS external insulation on the walls. This will give a wall with a 'u' value of about 0.13 which is actually passive house standard. Use concrete blocks for the foundations and carry the external insulation down to the concrete footings. Have a concrete slab floor and put 20cm EPS insulation under the slab. (very close to passive house standard) and about 30cm glasswool insulation in the roof (passive house standard) Built with these insulation standards the house will have negligible heating bills and be cool in the summer. Also any local builder will be able to do the job and the methods and skills needed are standard and difficult to mess up. (don't use plasterboard on the external walls - use standard wet render)
Porotherm 25cm blocks are load bearing for single story, (I'm not sure about 2 stories). There is no structural or insulative need to have thicker than 25cm blocks (increasing the block thickness to 38cm only reduces the 'u' value by 0.01) and using these materials will probably give the best performance / GBP and give a nice environment in which to live.
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 6:15 am
  #50  
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Peter_in_Hungary - will respond once I find a space to sit down properly with laptop fully recharged.
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 6:33 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

I heard that from the 1st January 2021 all new 'permanent home' construction has to be able to reach the Hungarian BB energy level which is energy usage below 100kw per square meter so you pretty much have to build to the level Peter_in_Hungary said, otherwise you will not get a occupancy certificate.
In theory you could meet the standard with a wood frame structure if you use the correct amount/type of insulation.

We recently bought a newly built house, the energy certificate was BB, I think about 60kw per square meter. It may be bigger than your requirements, it is; single level, 150sqm floor area, 3bdrms, 2.5 bathrooms, I was told by a friend who knows about this sort of thing, it would have cost about 60mil ft to construct. It has some extras like under floor heating, garage and reasonable level of finish. But may be it gives you an idea of the costs involved in construction.

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Old Nov 6th 2020, 3:26 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by ecurb View Post
I heard that from the 1st January 2021 all new 'permanent home' construction has to be able to reach the Hungarian BB energy level which is energy usage below 100kw per square meter so you pretty much have to build to the level Peter_in_Hungary said, otherwise you will not get a occupancy certificate.
In theory you could meet the standard with a wood frame structure if you use the correct amount/type of insulation.

We recently bought a newly built house, the energy certificate was BB, I think about 60kw per square meter. It may be bigger than your requirements, it is; single level, 150sqm floor area, 3bdrms, 2.5 bathrooms, I was told by a friend who knows about this sort of thing, it would have cost about 60mil ft to construct. It has some extras like under floor heating, garage and reasonable level of finish. But may be it gives you an idea of the costs involved in construction.
150 sq.m. I think, long term, would be quite big for just two of us and a dog. We're planning to join the new house with the old house. We're not quite sure if this would be a good idea or not. We need to look into what we would use the older part for. Also need to replace the roof timber frame and new tiles. As well check whether the existing house walls are still structurally safe. Alot to think about really. Need an architecture to come up with a plan.
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Old Nov 6th 2020, 6:42 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

The cost of new build will vary greatly depending upon the finish required. The energy rating requires of 100kW /m2 (I presume this means 100kWh/m2/year) is not very good, a passive house has a max. space heating demand of 15kWh/m2/year with a max. peak demand or 10w/m2. the examples I gave above almost get to this level. Underfloor heating is expensive to install and if the money is spent on insulation to get close to passive house then underfloor heating is just not needed and a much simpler (cheaper) system can be used e.g. a couple of wall hung electric rads will suffice. There are houses in the UK insulated to such a standard that they have no heating system at all and a fan heater is kept for use a couple of times a year if the temp. gets silly low.

Yes you can get to the required standard (BB) quite easily with timber frame - but unless the timber frame construction is done with exemplary attention to detail problems will arise. E.g. timber frame requires a vapour control layer (vcl) on the inside to prevent moisture from the house condensing on the timbers and causing rot. Any holes in the vcl will result in rot in a few years. So everyone needs to be careful, builders with nails or plasterboard screws, plumbers fitting pipes, electricians wiring and fitting plugs, owners hanging pictures - the list goes on.... I would only do a timber frame if I was doing a self build because I don't trust the trades people. Any wet getting to the timber frame can be a serious problem so any roof issues etc. need to be dealt with immediately. Bricks and mortar are much more tolerant.

About joining the new build to the existing house needs thinking about
Depending upon the build of the existing there may be compatibility issues in attaching a new build. It my be better to have a 'soft join' rather than actually connect the two.
If you attach the new with the old - either soft or hard - this would be an extension. From January new build houses have 5% VAT whilst extensions (I think) and upgrades to existing are still at 27%VAT
The councils 'local plan' will have details of allowable numbers and locations of new build for the village and extensions will be outside these planning regs.
Before you get an architect to come up with a plan you need to decide what you want - and then ask the architect how to best do it.

Fentiger - what is the construction method of the existing house? Brick, stone, or adobe (vályogtégla)?
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Old Nov 7th 2020, 8:04 am
  #54  
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Peter_in_Hungary - construction is adobe.
What is a soft join?
The one thing we need to get round is we can only extend on one side and the current outbuilding next to the house is the garage with access to the basement. I'll try and draw a plan as it's easier than explaining here. The garage and outbuildings are about one third the width of the house. The basement entrance is very close inside the garage to the doors! The extension will probably be half or 2/3rds the width.
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Old Nov 7th 2020, 10:21 am
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Quote from Peter "E.g. timber frame requires a vapour control layer (vcl) on the inside to prevent moisture from the house condensing on the timbers and causing rot Any holes in the vcl will result in rot in a few years."

I entered the UK timber frame industry in 1978, and completed 20 years, was involved with thousands of residential units and many commercial buildings including multi storey hotels and blocks of flats - & I have never come across a case of rot!

ETA: Disclaimer -
I left the industry in 1998 following redundancy to pursue a totally different career and I no longer have any links or affiliations with the industry.

Last edited by Expatrick; Nov 7th 2020 at 10:47 am.
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Old Nov 9th 2020, 7:57 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Quote from Peter "E.g. timber frame requires a vapour control layer (vcl) on the inside to prevent moisture from the house condensing on the timbers and causing rot Any holes in the vcl will result in rot in a few years."

I entered the UK timber frame industry in 1978, and completed 20 years, was involved with thousands of residential units and many commercial buildings including multi storey hotels and blocks of flats - & I have never come across a case of rot!

ETA: Disclaimer -
I left the industry in 1998 following redundancy to pursue a totally different career and I no longer have any links or affiliations with the industry.
The purpose of a VCL in a modern softwood timber frame building is to stop moisture from the house entering the wall structure and condensing within the wall. This is called interstitial condensation. If such condensation happens then the timbers will get damp/wet and rot will follow. The VCL is put in to the structure because it is needed. (Brick or block houses do not need a VCL). It follows then that if the VCL within the timber framing is damaged or badly installed then it will not perform as intended and interstitial condensation can result with rot following.
interstitial condensation is a known problem with timber framing, factory built 'pre-fab' type houses are less likely to suffer from a poor VCL as better quality control will happen in the factory. On site 'stick built' houses stand a higher risk of VCL damage because not all of the trades working know or understand the importance of the VCL and so less care will be taken. In addition to VCL damage problems can also arise if green timbers are used in the construction, not usually a problem with factory built units but it is rare to get seasoned dry timber in Hungary that is protected from rain before use when doing site construction. Another cause of interstitial condensation can be when the VCL is damaged during extension building or post construction works by people who don't understand the need for proper attention to detail with the VCL. So interstitial condensation in timber framing can and does cause rot and can remain hidden until renovation or extension works are carried out.

Expatrick - I don't know what part of the timber frame industry you were working in but interstitial condensation is a known problem in the industry (which is why VCLs are installed) but if you were involved with new build rather than renovation of old then it is possible that you would not have seen rot in timber frames.
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Old Nov 9th 2020, 8:08 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by FenTiger View Post
Peter_in_Hungary - construction is adobe.
What is a soft join?
The one thing we need to get round is we can only extend on one side and the current outbuilding next to the house is the garage with access to the basement. I'll try and draw a plan as it's easier than explaining here. The garage and outbuildings are about one third the width of the house. The basement entrance is very close inside the garage to the doors! The extension will probably be half or 2/3rds the width.
When an extension is put on a house it is normal practice to key the new wall into the existing every other (or 3rd) course so that the old and new become one. Where the building materials have very differing properties it can be unwise to key in so the new is built with a minimum or no connection (a soft join) so that the old and new can act independently. Obviously attention to proper waterproofing the join has to take place which may be e.g. a silicon bead covered by a capping that would need periodic inspection.

If the original house is adobe construction then IMO it would not be a good idea to key modern building blocks into the original walls but to use a 'soft join'
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 5:58 am
  #58  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
When an extension is put on a house it is normal practice to key the new wall into the existing every other (or 3rd) course so that the old and new become one. Where the building materials have very differing properties it can be unwise to key in so the new is built with a minimum or no connection (a soft join) so that the old and new can act independently. Obviously attention to proper waterproofing the join has to take place which may be e.g. a silicon bead covered by a capping that would need periodic inspection.

If the original house is adobe construction then IMO it would not be a good idea to key modern building blocks into the original walls but to use a 'soft join'
Ah, I get it. I see the point about not keying in the new extension into the existing house walls. I've seen a couple of houses, some we viewed, with extensions and have assumed this is how they were joined to the old part of the house. My main worry is the roof beams which need replacing. I had gone up into the attic with a friend to replace some missing roof tiles and he stated they, the roof beams, didn't look too good. He is a carpenter by trade and a bit of a jack of all trades on other things so have taken his word on them needing replacing. He won't be replacing the roof beams as he's stated someone specialising in roofing needs to be employed. The roof tiles are also past their effectiveness date so need to be replaced. But first we must get someone in to do a report on the structure and condition of the whole house so we don't hit problems later.
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 11:55 am
  #59  
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Around 20 years ago we had a similar problem with the roof and also were told that it would be best to exchange beams and tiles together - part of the beams were still round not square, really old.
Since I had some inherited money and a large circles of friends who wanted to visit us or Balaton/Hévíz we got the idea of raising the roof another meter and building a small apartment up there with all facilities - modern kitchen including dishwasher, later also air condition for a part ...
In the end we lived upstairs (half of the year, of course we kept our place in Germany) and had family and friends staying in the old part of the house.
But you have to be careful there, make sure that the old walls are strong enough and put an iron/concrete ring under the roof for the beams to rest on.
So better ask an expert!
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Old Nov 10th 2020, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by wolfi View Post
Around 20 years ago we had a similar problem with the roof and also were told that it would be best to exchange beams and tiles together - part of the beams were still round not square, really old.
Since I had some inherited money and a large circles of friends who wanted to visit us or Balaton/Hévíz we got the idea of raising the roof another meter and building a small apartment up there with all facilities - modern kitchen including dishwasher, later also air condition for a part ...
In the end we lived upstairs (half of the year, of course we kept our place in Germany) and had family and friends staying in the old part of the house.
But you have to be careful there, make sure that the old walls are strong enough and put an iron/concrete ring under the roof for the beams to rest on.
So better ask an expert!
Knowing where the beams are I think it would be impossible to create any useful space in the attic unless you were 1.5 metres tall! But if we could I'd use it for storing anything we can get through the attic door. But would have to insulate the roof to ensure whatever is stored doesn't freeze or melt due to the weather conditions.
Wolfi - is your house adobe?
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