Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Hungary
Reload this Page >

building your own house in hungary

building your own house in hungary

Old Sep 22nd 2019, 11:39 am
  #31  
Dedicated European
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 5,548
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

True - although my apartment is ground floor so no benefit from below - though I am undoubtedly keeping Zsófi upstairs warm (!), 3 out of 4 perimeter walls are external, with big windows & unlike most apartments my entrance is a separate entrance opening direct onto the outside, so overall not a totally invalid indication. However the big difference is that my north facing wall is internal to the house!



Floor rug removed in summer to help keep cool!
Expatrick is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2019, 8:17 pm
  #32  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

expatrick ,
i guess this makes me the virgin lol
thanks for all your help
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2019, 8:20 pm
  #33  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Thumbs up Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
True - although my apartment is ground floor so no benefit from below - though I am undoubtedly keeping Zsófi upstairs warm (!), 3 out of 4 perimeter walls are external, with big windows & unlike most apartments my entrance is a separate entrance opening direct onto the outside, so overall not a totally invalid indication. However the big difference is that my north facing wall is internal to the house!



Floor rug removed in summer to help keep cool!
i love the high ceilings in the old budapest appartments i have stayed in during visits but i think for my house every penny saved is a must , so an extra meter of unused headroom may be a extravagance . thanks for all room help and info .
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2019, 9:23 pm
  #34  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Smile Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
There are 2 types of foundations mainly used in Hungary (although occasionally a reinforced concrete raft is used) either a full fill trench or strip foundation at the base and wall up to DPC level. For the full fill method the concrete is bulked out with stones. For strip method a concrete strip is poured at the base and a wall is built the same width as the house wall above. This wall is typically constructed of concrete shuttering blocks which are loose laid and then filled with concrete. This method is cheaper than full fill unless you have a (free) source of basalt rocks. The width and depth will depend upon the local ground conditions but will not be less than 500mm wide and 900mm deep. The strip method also has the advantage that if EWI is used then this can be carried down to the concrete to mitigate the cold bridge usually found at DPC level.

Your target house of 10m x 9m with a half height 1st floor is fairly common here but I would go for dormer windows as you get more useable space and they are much easier to get good thermal properties than the Velux type of roof windows which can lead to over heating in the summer and be cold in the winter. A 3M forint budget could be a bit of a challenge with todays prices.

I would not plan to install AC. If the house is well insulated and the south facing windows have a decent overhang from the roof to reduce solar gain then AC should net be needed. In the summer we run with the windows shut when it is hotter outside and open when it is cooler outside i.e shut during the day and open at night. Also it is worth considering mechanical ventilation with heat reclaim (MVHR) to run during the winter, spring and autumn. Modern houses with good windows and doors lack the draughts of old houses and so usually lack adequate ventilation unless design steps are taken to provide this and opening windows in the winter just doesn't happen enough.

The online building diary is filled in by the builder.

And yes learning the lingo is a pain and having a Hungarian partner/wife can be both an advantage and disadvantage (can make you lazy)


Apartments have very different heating demands to houses so a comparison is not very easy.

We've been here 25 years and run an organic farm
Peter , thanks for clearing up some info again . will be sitting down with a architect as soon as i can get the place sold in london . great tip with regard to the AC and window placement , the house will have a south facing front so was planning on velux style at the north side of roof , but dormer is something i need to look into in respect to how complicated the roof design would get ,not my forte . the heat recovery/ air change system has not been decided on yet but after treating many mould infested properties i am fully versed in the modern curse of hermetically sealed house . most people dont realise that even just thier breath can put a litre of water into the air in a day and if that moist warm air is not dealt with ,those cold areas of the house will have condensation problems closely followed by those lovely mould spore . will let you know what system i choose when i have decided .
when you say the builder completes the site diary , would that be me as i am carrying out the work or did you mean a builder with a relevant qualification , sorry to ask again but need clarification .

my partner grew up in a childrens home in hodmezovasarhely and part of the daily routine was helping with the homes vegatable garden and chickens which provided a lot of the homes produce ,
we have a 2000sqm plot and my partners dream is to have this again so i will probably be asking some advice from you peter . but dont worry that is a year or 2 away (house needs building first .)
thanks again for you knowledge peter , hopefully once i have completed my house i can help more with info and issues on the forum .
if i dont reply straight away gents its because im very busy at the moment , but i will reply to all .
regards
warren
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Sep 24th 2019, 4:18 pm
  #35  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,400
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
the house will have a south facing front so was planning on velux style at the north side of roof , but dormer is something i need to look into in respect to how complicated the roof design would get ,not my forte .
The Hungarian roof build-up is different to the UK. The typical roof timbers here are 10cm x 15cm rafters spaced at about 90cm attached to a 15 x 15 sole plate which is attached to a cast in situ reinforced concrete ring beam. Typically the dormer vertical timbers sit on the rafters which is why you see a lot of dormers 1m wide or if it is a wider dormer then perhaps on a sister rafter. It is the job of the architect to dream up the roof timbers and the job of the structural engineer to add realism to make sure that it doesn't fall down. Putting velux windows on the north side will avoid the solar gain but they leak more heat than dormers due to them pointing at the sky.
Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
the heat recovery/ air change system has not been decided on yet but after treating many mould infested properties i am fully versed in the modern curse of hermetically sealed house . most people dont realise that even just thier breath can put a litre of water into the air in a day and if that moist warm air is not dealt with ,those cold areas of the house will have condensation problems closely followed by those lovely mould spore .
IMO MVHR would be the way to go and there are some reasonably cheap units that are available now and ducting is easy with a new build. You are right when you say that people don't realise the need for ventilation when they change to new windows. Locally a couple of years back a family changed to new windows and failed to account for the ventilation required for a gas heater. Unfortunately the result was a couple of deaths and hospitalisation as a result of the CO poisoning. That said the adage must be....built tight, ventilate right.
Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
when you say the builder completes the site diary , would that be me as i am carrying out the work or did you mean a builder with a relevant qualification , sorry to ask again but need clarification .
You do the diary as you are doing (or are in charge of, in the case of subbies) the work.
Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
my partner grew up in a childrens home in hodmezovasarhely and part of the daily routine was helping with the homes vegatable garden and chickens which provided a lot of the homes produce ,
we have a 2000sqm plot and my partners dream is to have this again so i will probably be asking some advice from you peter . but dont worry that is a year or 2 away (house needs building first .)
If the plot layout has been fixed then with advantage you could plant any fruit trees wanted in the relevant area this autum as these will take some time to start giving produce so to put them in now would put you ahead of the game.

Have you applied for residency yet? The advice is to start that ball rolling before Brexit.

Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Sep 24th 2019, 4:34 pm
  #36  
Dedicated European
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 5,548
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Unfortunately the result was a couple of deaths and hospitalisation as a result of the CO poisoning. That said the adage must be....built tight, ventilate right.
That's one of the reasons I love my decades old wooden windows, they font fit quite as tight as they used to!
Expatrick is offline  
Old Sep 25th 2019, 6:51 pm
  #37  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Smile Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
The Hungarian roof build-up is different to the UK. The typical roof timbers here are 10cm x 15cm rafters spaced at about 90cm attached to a 15 x 15 sole plate which is attached to a cast in situ reinforced concrete ring beam. Typically the dormer vertical timbers sit on the rafters which is why you see a lot of dormers 1m wide or if it is a wider dormer then perhaps on a sister rafter. It is the job of the architect to dream up the roof timbers and the job of the structural engineer to add realism to make sure that it doesn't fall down. Putting velux windows on the north side will avoid the solar gain but they leak more heat than dormers due to them pointing at the sky.

as usual peter very good info the velux issue i did not know about . i am in budapest early oct and am arranging to sit down with an architect to discuss my rough design and get info on how he would need to change to conform with hungary building regs .
will let you know what arises .

IMO MVHR would be the way to go and there are some reasonably cheap units that are available now and ducting is easy with a new build. You are right when you say that people don't realise the need for ventilation when they change to new windows. Locally a couple of years back a family changed to new windows and failed to account for the ventilation required for a gas heater. Unfortunately the result was a couple of deaths and hospitalisation as a result of the CO poisoning. That said the adage must be....built tight, ventilate right.
MVHR for domestic is not something im too up to date with but is something i am looking to use as per our previous discussion on the benefits of good ventilation and energy recovery .
any make/ company you could recomend so i can look into this before the design gets started in anger ?

You do the diary as you are doing (or are in charge of, in the case of subbies) the work.
thanks for the clarification peter , top man !

If the plot layout has been fixed then with advantage you could plant any fruit trees wanted in the relevant area this autum as these will take some time to start giving produce so to put them in now would put you ahead of the game.
you must be a mind reader , my partner called today to ask if we could get some tree planted before the build starts , turns out her and her daughter have been looking into fruit trees and have a friend who can source what we choose .

Have you applied for residency yet? The advice is to start that ball rolling before Brexit.
will be started in oct , partner has been with the tax office and NI people this week to sort out her return to hungary and they have said if i pop in during my october visit they will take me through getting started .

as always i will post as these things take shape so hopefully my journey and issues may help someone else .

many thanks everyone
warren
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Sep 25th 2019, 6:53 pm
  #38  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

sorry peter havent got hang of quoting so i have answered in your quote box .
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2019, 9:33 am
  #39  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,400
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

You ask about MVHR unit, I can't recommend one from personal use but I know someone who has used https://ventilation-system.com/product/vut-100-p-mini and is happy with the performance and https://www.blauberg.co.uk/en/blaube...-recovery-unit looks to be the same (badge engineered ?) but on sale in the UK and cheaper than the first example (manufactured in Ukraine) as sold in Hungary. If you google small MVHR units then choices can be seen

Another point about building in Hungary is that wooden floor joists are not used in conventional building, it's all concrete beam and block which makes for a quiet house and facilitates under floor heating if that is the way you want to go.

For quoting - the only way I have found to section quotes is to quote the whole item and then cut and paste / delete the relevant bits. (anyone else know an easier way ??? )
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Oct 20th 2019, 7:16 pm
  #40  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
warrenpeace is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

hi guys ,
appologies for the gap between updates , has been hectic .
have been in buda for a week now and had a meeting with the design manager at xella ytong in budapest and although nothing is 100% settled i am looking to build an ytong paassive house . i have a link for the design but am not sure how the forum is about sharing a link .
i now need to find an architect in the szendehely , Vac area to discuss plans etc .
peter , thanks for the MVHR info , this is a definate for the passive house due to its airtight design and our views on adequate ventillation in modern properties .
as i said , nothing 100% but im leaning towards this house as it ticks many boxes for me from ease of built to energy efficiency and the layout is just enough for me the mrs and the old classic bikes and other things i hope to restart once building is complete .
i have another meeting tomorrow at xella and am visiting some of the mrs friends in szendehely this week who built(had built) homes using porotherm and other systems so will update on what i find and any effect it might have on my final decision .

wow what a week i chose to come , the weather has been fantastic .
good health all
warren .
warrenpeace is offline  
Old Oct 21st 2019, 9:39 am
  #41  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,400
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Do the sums on cost. I would be surprised if you can get to passive house standard with ytong alone that is with out external insulation (EWI) as well and if you are going down the EWI route any way cost out standard B30 or B25 blocks (both sufficient for structural strength) plus EWI to get to the required insulation level. AFAIK ytong get the U values by using thin layer adhesive between the blocks rather than standard mortar as used for the B30 / 25s so this is another factor to count. Ytong block are also quite soft so getting screws to hold can be a problem without 2 part adhesive - standard wall plugs don't work that well.

Are you going for a certified passive house design or just building to PH standards? Finding an architect who is sympathetic and understanding of PH rational and standards could be difficult, they have all heard of PH of course but not many will have planned one. The PH standard can be a bit dated in some areas (e.g. annual kWh / m2 limits) and sometimes it is better to specify your own limits to the architect. Attention to the proper mitigation of cold bridges is important rather than just the 'standard' approach e.g. the cold bridge at the floor slab / wall area, the best way (IMO) is to continue the slab insulation out to meet the EWI and build the wall on the insulation - except that this need 300 grade EPS which is nor available here (only up to 200 grade (Note grade not thickness)) so different solutions need to be found.

Good luck with finding an architect but once you have done that you will have problems with getting a builder to build with sufficient attention to detail to achieve the design results. All builders cut corners for the sake of speed and with a high performance house these short cuts always leads to a drop of in performance - for ever. I have found that the only way to get the building done properly is to understand what should be done and be on site to make sure that it is done.
Peter_in_Hungary is offline  
Old Oct 21st 2019, 9:48 am
  #42  
Dedicated European
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 5,548
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Peter, the architect I have recommended is very switched on, so hopefully he can help Warren out!
Expatrick is offline  
Old Oct 21st 2019, 12:05 pm
  #43  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near the Balaton
Posts: 667
wolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to all
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Peter, you are totally right - as usual!
Re quality of the work:
One might also mention that the quality and willingness of the workers is a big factor - if someone takes a shortcut or leaves out an essential step and neither the builder nor the architect (nor you ...) sees this?
I hope it's not as bad as it used to be - just one example:
Some years ago I had the small company work again for me and I realised that there were two alcoholics on the team - in the morning their work was ok, but then. ...
Of course the boss had forbidden the consumption of alc but I found out:
They went to our neighbour who had a little wine cellar on his premises - with a large mineral water bottle which then was filled with wine ....
It got so bad that they were both thrown out of the team after they made a few mistakes.
So be careful with craftsmen generally - we always ask around the village before letting someone work for us.
wolfi is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2019, 11:42 pm
  #44  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
Benny Kovacs is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Originally Posted by wolfi View Post
Some years ago I had the small company work again for me and I realised that there were two alcoholics on the team - in the morning their work was ok, but then. ...
Some of the best work on our house has been done by functioning alcoholics, our qualified electrician however has been stone cold sober all the time and has made a right bodge of
anything more complicated than the basic one switch, one light set-up. One intermediate switch we have uses the earth wire as a live wire, it's truly shocking (pun intended).
Benny Kovacs is offline  
Old Oct 31st 2019, 9:27 pm
  #45  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near the Balaton
Posts: 667
wolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to allwolfi is a name known to all
Default Re: building your own house in hungary

Benny, it really depends ...
Some time ago we were searching for a specialist for water connections and our neighbour recommended someone. But he added:
Get this guy to do the work in the morning!
I saw hime once after lunch time in our kocsma - and he couldn't hold a screwdriver ...
t's a sad fact.
wolfi is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.