GOA - Buyer Beware!

Old May 21st 2008, 10:47 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

time for a re-cap.

First of all I want to say that while I may disagree with Douglas on some techy points he has made a very valuable contribution over a long period.

He is certainly right to try and discourage anyone from buying Goan property now, and I have said the same thing myself several times.

I don't take his point that most / all FN's do not have freehold, nor that many sales agreements are nothing more than 5 year leases.
Any FN with a valid Agreement for Sale** and in possession of their property has claim to a good title, and in law is entitled to register a Deed of Sale when they are FEMA resident. If the Registrar refuses to do this they have recourse to the High Court. This will include most 'Acronites' who also have i) a five year lease and ii) a gentleman's agreement to continue renewing said lease. Interestingly the Transfer of Property Act and related legal precedent seems to say that a Contract containing an agreement to renew a lease (even 'in perpetuity') is legally binding.

** Since the implementation of Act 48 of 2001 (which I am told was not until 2006 in Goa) it has been compulsory to Register Agreements for Sale and similar documents.

AndyD 8-)#
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Old May 21st 2008, 10:51 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

[QUOTE=michellea;6374341].... As long as the interviewee takes a balanced approach and accepts that some people did perhaps knowingly buy illegally by setting up bogus companies and never intended to be resident. Lawyers/Advocates had a duty of care to point out that what they were doing was illegal,

Hi Michellea,
We had every intention of becoming residents when family duties allowed but pulled back when we saw the writing on the wall. We were advised BY OUR ADVOCATE in late 2005 to open a business. He did all of the paperwork for us and is still advising us to open a business account and get an accountant. We know of people who are still relying on the 'business route' and whose advocates are still advising them this is the correct action.
Who REALLY knows what is going on. We are resigned to pulling out with as much money as we can badger the builder to give us. Dreams shattered but life goes on.
Daff
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Old May 21st 2008, 11:06 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

The main point here is can you prove that you as a FN were resident
You should be able to prove the dates when you were resident (small 'r') with a notarised copy of your passport (all pages - to prevent 'compilations').
It could be difficult to prove that you did not take up employment or business in the UK, but it should be possible to prove that you have sufficient income not to need to (e.g. retired, independently wealthy, a famous author, a successful burglar <g> etc.)
It is recognised in law that it is impossible to prove intent, so it would be up to a challenger to disprove your assertion of intention to stay for an uncertain period. You can offer supporting evidence of intent (return tickets to UK open or non-existent etc. - indeed as I have suggested before, it could be argued that buying property is of itself clear evidence of an intention to stay for an 'uncertain period'). On that last point it should be remembered that FEMA - and its definition of resident / non-resident - is primarily concerned with foreign exchange not property ownership.

AndyD 8-)#

Last edited by a_f_d; May 21st 2008 at 11:12 am. Reason: clarity
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Old May 21st 2008, 11:10 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

accepts that some people did perhaps knowingly buy illegally by setting up bogus companies and never intended to be resident.
Sorry, you're confusing two things - people who set up companies (bogus or otherwise) which then buy property do not themselves need to be FEMA resident because the company is resident.

AndyD 8-)#
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Old May 21st 2008, 11:19 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

[QUOTE=Daff;6374585]
Originally Posted by michellea View Post
.... As long as the interviewee takes a balanced approach and accepts that some people did perhaps knowingly buy illegally by setting up bogus companies and never intended to be resident. Lawyers/Advocates had a duty of care to point out that what they were doing was illegal,

Hi Michellea,
We had every intention of becoming residents when family duties allowed but pulled back when we saw the writing on the wall. We were advised BY OUR ADVOCATE in late 2005 to open a business. He did all of the paperwork for us and is still advising us to open a business account and get an accountant. We know of people who are still relying on the 'business route' and whose advocates are still advising them this is the correct action.
Who REALLY knows what is going on. We are resigned to pulling out with as much money as we can badger the builder to give us. Dreams shattered but life goes on.
Daff
for reasons I don't really understand the sub-Registrar is apparantly still registering company purchases with no problem!

AndyD 8-)#
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Old May 21st 2008, 11:25 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hi afd, sorry if my wording was confusing, I wasn't relating the two but simply stating that a balanced view should be given.
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Old May 21st 2008, 11:35 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

I'd just like to take the opportunity to point out that a negative post is not necessarily a bad thing, and might only seem negative to one who doesn't agree with the point of view.

It's important to get a balanced view on any forum and then make a decision yourself based on what you have learned. One could say that if all you see are negative posts then clearly there is an issue, but its for you to decide.

If you disagree then put your point of view over for sure, but a member posting negatively here has as much right to post here as a posisive poster

Hope that made sense

Cheers
Mitz
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Old May 21st 2008, 1:14 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by a_f_d View Post
You should be able to prove the dates when you were resident (small 'r') with a notarised copy of your passport (all pages - to prevent 'compilations').
It could be difficult to prove that you did not take up employment or business in the UK, but it should be possible to prove that you have sufficient income not to need to (e.g. retired, independently wealthy, a famous author, a successful burglar etc.)
It is recognised in law that it is impossible to prove intent, so it would be up to a challenger to disprove your assertion of intention to stay for an uncertain period. You can offer supporting evidence of intent (return tickets to UK open or non-existent etc. - indeed as I have suggested before, it could be argued that buying property is of itself clear evidence of an intention to stay for an 'uncertain period'). On that last point it should be remembered that FEMA - and its definition of resident / non-resident - is primarily concerned with foreign exchange not property ownership.


AndyD 8-)#

Hi Andy,

You are clearly the ultimate techy.

However, in practice you will probably find yourself in front of an indian official that bought his job, was away sick the week they did FEMA , is of limited intellect, has had instructions from above to obstruct FNs, is xenophobic, who doesnt understand our culture , has a quota to meet in terms of fines and other penalties and then tells you he has lost your file and could you come back next week.

kind regards
douglas
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Old May 21st 2008, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
I'd just like to take the opportunity to point out that a negative post is not necessarily a bad thing, and might only seem negative to one who doesn't agree with the point of view.

It's important to get a balanced view on any forum and then make a decision yourself based on what you have learned. One could say that if all you see are negative posts then clearly there is an issue, but its for you to decide.

If you disagree then put your point of view over for sure, but a member posting negatively here has as much right to post here as a posisive poster

Hope that made sense



cheers
Mitz
Hi Mitzboy,

I agree, what is percieved to be negative by many is often with hindsight found to be correct and ultimately positive.

Douglas has a levels in negativity according to some and he is the guy who understood most of this stuff, subsequently moved on and is very happy with his new chapter in life.

Lets have more negativity if that is the end result.

kind regards
douglas
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Old May 21st 2008, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M View Post
Hi Andy,

You are clearly the ultimate techy.

However, in practice you will probably find yourself in front of an indian official that bought his job, was away sick the week they did FEMA , is of limited intellect, has had instructions from above to obstruct FNs, is xenophobic, who doesnt understand our culture , has a quota to meet in terms of fines and other penalties and then tells you he has lost your file and could you come back next week.

kind regards
douglas
Yes there's always that (but you missed out the bit about him then going home and setting fire to his wife 'cos the next dowry payment was overdue).

AndyD
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Old May 21st 2008, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by a_f_d View Post
Yes there's always that (but you missed out the bit about him then going home and setting fire to his wife 'cos the next dowry payment was overdue).

AndyD
Hi Andy,

That should raise a few eyebrows amongst the hindus.

Better not mention francis xavier requesting the installation of the inquisition in goa either.

But it does sort of balance out the atrocities.

kind regards
douglas
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Old May 22nd 2008, 8:25 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hello people
would anyone have any contact details for suvina orchards builders ref Mr Redkar cheers
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Old May 23rd 2008, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hi
just listened to the "You and Yours" broadcast, pretty good allowing for normal media simplification.
Narvekar said that FN's who bought in good faith were a simple matter that could be looked at. No-one said that properties were actually going to be confiscated, and apart from the fact that that the programme accepted that the law has changed (NOT TRUE) I was quite impressed.

AndyD 8-)#
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Old May 23rd 2008, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
.

If you disagree then put your point of view over for sure, but a member posting negatively here has as much right to post here as a posisive poster

Hope that made sense

Cheers
Mitz

I disagree with you.

Hope that made sense.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hi for those of us here in Goa, and could'nt listen to the programme and still cant, can you give us a brief of what was said, and where we take this "small matter" to thanks
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