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Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by dickylewis
(Post 5043892)
Hi Guys
Me again. Just read a thread from Noni stating that I had been refunded from ACRON. Not quite true; I am with Churchils and have asked them for a refund. I have had Emails from Charlie Pritchard assuring me that I will get a full refund when my apartment is sold. This is reassuring as if the worse happens I have some form of "contract" to refund me. Also I made sure that I paid all deposits to Churchil and not the developers so if this ends up in the small claims court as a result of me being misled; my gripe is with Churchil and not the developers. Still coming for a holiday in late November and hopefully have bulging wallet by then. I would be inclined to give churchills 7 days notice in writing to return your monies and if they dont cough, start CC proceedings. You didnt own the property in the first place, so churchills cant sell your property because no transfer of ownership has taken place. Remember,you are expressly forbidden from owning immovable property under indian law as a non resident FN. The fact that you paid monies to churchills, not the freeholder (assuming they are not the freeholder) would give weight to this argument. Therefore, the unknown freeholder still owns the property, the fact that the agent has or has not yet sold property x on behalf of the freeholder is of no relevance to your claim and should not delay your refund. If and when you actually do purchase immovable property in india, in addition to the residency requirement, the total consideration should be paid through normal indian banking channels for the benefit of the freeholder, in order to comply with FEMA. regards douglas |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by indiapurple
(Post 5044098)
Hi everyone, thank you for your responses.
I do realise that we are in the same vulnerable position as everyone else. But....as we DONT have a lease agreement, just an Agreement of Sale, does this make us MORE vulnerable? If I ask the freeholder to draw up a lease agreement, will this help? kind regards If i was in your position, that is exactly what i would do. I would also have the lease stamped and registered. In my view the validity of your agreement to sale is questionable, others disagree with that statement. However, if it is valid and you havnt registered it and paid 1% of the consideration as stamp duty, you have committed at least one offence under the 1908 registration act. So, non registered sales agreements arent a good idea either way, for non resident FNs. regards douglas |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by dickylewis
(Post 5043892)
Hi Guys
Me again. Just read a thread from Noni stating that I had been refunded from ACRON. Not quite true; I am with Churchils and have asked them for a refund. I have had Emails from Charlie Pritchard assuring me that I will get a full refund when my apartment is sold. This is reassuring as if the worse happens I have some form of "contract" to refund me. Also I made sure that I paid all deposits to Churchil and not the developers so if this ends up in the small claims court as a result of me being misled; my gripe is with Churchil and not the developers. Still coming for a holiday in late November and hopefully have bulging wallet by then. Me B''@@''''' up again :thumbdown:- being on the Acron site I thought you had bought from them. Apologies to Churchills, and good for them, we slag off Agents, must give the little darlings credit when credit :o is due Bet there is a big wad in your pocket now. |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by a_f_d
(Post 5043853)
Remy-Ireland said:
well here I go swimming against the tide again: that is just not true, it could be argued that a tourist visa does not show intent to stay for an uncertain period, but I suggest not if that was the only sort of visa available. FEMA does not discuss types of visa. I think they have an Agreement of Sale which is not the same thing don't agree for the reasons stated above Well that I do agree with <g> ... and since I started this reply I see that Douglas has posted a comment - accurate and to the point as usual! AndyD 8-)# Suggest you look up HCI defination of tourist visa. Holidaying and Visiting Friends/Relatives. The reason why FEMA dosnt mention the type of visa you can buy on is simply because of the following: RBI Q6. Can a foreign national of non-indian origin resident outside India purchase immovable property in India? A6. No. A foreign national of non indian origin, resident outside india cannot purchase any immovable property in India. But he/she may take residential accomodation on lease provided the period of lease does not exceed five years. In such cases, there is no requirement of taking any permission of or reporting to Reserve Bank. Come on Andy, where going over old ground here....please dont mis lead people by letting them think its ok to purchase on a tourist visa. Also you cant complete residency on a tourist visa in order to comply with FEMA. Regards, Remy |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5044389)
Hi Andy,
Suggest you look up HCI defination of tourist visa. Holidaying and Visiting Friends/Relatives. The reason why FEMA dosnt mention the type of visa you can buy on is simply because of the following: RBI Q6. Can a foreign national of non-indian origin resident outside India purchase immovable property in India? A6. No. A foreign national of non indian origin, resident outside india cannot purchase any immovable property in India. But he/she may take residential accomodation on lease provided the period of lease does not exceed five years. In such cases, there is no requirement of taking any permission of or reporting to Reserve Bank. Come on Andy, where going over old ground here....please dont mis lead people by letting them think its ok to purchase on a tourist visa. Also you cant complete residency on a tourist visa in order to comply with FEMA. Regards, Remy My argument for this is - whoever has had their Property registered on a tourist visa the repercussions should be on the Advocate for not doing his job properly, and for the Registra for registering them. |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 5044432)
There is no argument any longer, we all know the Register is closed, and tourist visa's are only for 180 days.
My argument for this is - whoever has had their Property registered on a tourist visa the repercussions should be on the Advocate for not doing his job properly, and for the Registra for registering them. Hi Noni, Your right. Regards, Remy |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 5044432)
There is no argument any longer, we all know the Register is closed, and tourist visa's are only for 180 days.
My argument for this is - whoever has had their Property registered on a tourist visa the repercussions should be on the Advocate for not doing his job properly, and for the Registra for registering them. I have to strongly disagree with your statement in the second para. The registrar is not responsible for the validity or otherwise of a FN registration, see my previous post that contains an article from a previous registrar on their duties and obligations. The FN will have signed an affidavit at the time of registration stating that they have complied with FEMA, the onus is on the FN to ensure that they have fully complied before signing both the sales deed and the affidavit, ignorance of the law is no defence. Moving on to the advocate now, who instructed him to register the sale, was it the developer or the FN? Was he even acting for the FN? If it was the FN, did the FN instruct the advocate simply to prepare a sales deed and an affidavit on an execution only basis , or did the FN ask for advice? Who paid the fee to the advocate and if a fee was paid , what was the fee paid for, was it simply for the drawing and execution of a deed , or was it for advice on property purchase by a FN? Assuming the FN has a case, would it be for negligence or loss, or both? Has there even been a quantifiable loss. These are important points of law and would ideally need to be evidenced in writing if a FN was to have any chance of making a claim for negligence or loss in any court. Then there is the problem of court appearances and travel for the FN and getting a judgement in your favour in a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system, plus the systemic delay in hearing your case. I rest my case douglas |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Douglas M
(Post 5044647)
Hi Noni and Remy,
I have to strongly disagree with your statement in the second para. The registrar is not responsible for the validity or otherwise of a FN registration, see my previous post that contains an article from a previous registrar on their duties and obligations. The FN will have signed an affidavit at the time of registration stating that they have complied with FEMA, the onus is on the FN to ensure that they have fully complied before signing both the sales deed and the affidavit, ignorance of the law is no defence. Moving on to the advocate now, who instructed him to register the sale, was it the developer or the FN? Was he even acting for the FN? If it was the FN, did the FN instruct the advocate simply to prepare a sales deed and an affidavit on an execution only basis , or did the FN ask for advice? Who paid the fee to the advocate and if a fee was paid , what was the fee paid for, was it simply for the drawing and execution of a deed , or was it for advice on property purchase by a FN? Assuming the FN has a case, would it be for negligence or loss, or both? Has there even been a quantifiable loss. These are important points of law and would ideally need to be evidenced in writing if a FN was to have any chance of making a claim for negligence or loss in any court. Then there is the problem of court appearances and travel for the FN and getting a judgement in your favour in a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system, plus the systemic delay in hearing your case. I rest my case douglas I agree with what your saying and i know the fault still lies mainly with the FN, BUT if they have a tourist visa then the registrar should simply say 'Get Lost, you cant buy here on a tourist visa.' Is this so hard to do? Regards, Remy |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5044743)
Hi Douglas,
I agree with what your saying and i know the fault still lies mainly with the FN, BUT if they have a tourist visa then the registrar should simply say 'Get Lost, you cant buy here on a tourist visa.' Is this so hard to do? Regards, Remy If a registrar refuses an application it must be in writing and the reason for refusal must be within his remit eg the documentation is incomplete or the valuation is incorrect. Compliance or otherwise with FEMA, is outside his remit. regards douglas |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Douglas M
(Post 5044815)
Hi Remy,
If a registrar refuses an application it must be in writing and the reason for refusal must be within his remit eg the documentation is incomplete or the valuation is incorrect. Compliance or otherwise with FEMA, is outside his remit. regards douglas Surely if you dont have residency then your documentation is incomplete as residency cant be completed on a tourist visa. Are you saying that the registrar doesnt or isnt able to check this basic requirement? Regards, Douglas |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5044743)
Hi Douglas,
I agree with what your saying and i know the fault still lies mainly with the FN, BUT if they have a tourist visa then the registrar should simply say 'Get Lost, you cant buy here on a tourist visa.' Is this so hard to do? Regards, Remy I can see what you are saying - but Remy and I are saying that they should check these things before registering, for god sake man, what are they being paid for. We all know that they are mostly village idiots, but you have to agree that the Goans have to take part of the blame, it is no good saying that FN should do this, or that, read this read that, why B....@@@@ sell to us in the first place (with the exception of you and me - whose cases are different) They should not be selling now to FN. End of story. If I don't get a reasonable visa - can I punch them on the nose when at the HCI next week. :o |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 5044877)
Hi, Douglas, :wub:
I can see what you are saying - but Remy and I are saying that they should check these things before registering, for god sake man, what are they being paid for. We all know that they are mostly village idiots, but you have to agree that the Goans have to take part of the blame, it is no good saying that FN should do this, or that, read this read that, why B....@@@@ sell to us in the first place (with the exception of you and me - whose cases are different) They should not be selling now to FN. End of story. If I don't get a reasonable visa - can I punch them on the nose when at the HCI next week. :o I e-mailed HCI London today and asked them to Post on their Website the dos and donts on Buying property in Goa. I also asked them to clarify their position on X visas to FNs. Also said they need to post some sort of 'warning' on all their Tourist Visa Application Forms. Will let you all know if and when i get a reply.........usually they do reply sooner or later. Regards, Remy |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5044902)
Hi Noni,
I e-mailed HCI London today and asked them to Post on their Website the dos and donts on Buying property in Goa. I also asked them to clarify their position on X visas to FNs. Also said they need to post some sort of 'warning' on all their Tourist Visa Application Forms. Will let you all know if and when i get a reply.........usually they do reply sooner or later. Regards, Remy zilch :thumbdown: http://oheraldo.in/node/26304 but it didn't say why the 10 did not have their visa's renewed. |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi,
None of this sounds promising for anyone buying in Goa. Just wondered if anyone had a good legal contact in the UK to speak to who knows about Indian property law and the current circumstances? Many thanks Pete |
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5044859)
Hi Douglas,
Surely if you dont have residency then your documentation is incomplete as residency cant be completed on a tourist visa. Are you saying that the registrar doesnt or isnt able to check this basic requirement? Regards, Douglas As far as the registrar is concerned compliance with FEMA is not a basic requirement. The registrar does not work for the RBI, he only has certain grounds for refusal and non compliance with FEMA is not one of them. The rules regarding immovable property registration may have even been compiled prior to 1999 and the advent of the FN residency qualification contained within FEMA, i am not sure on that one? Furthermore the majority of the registrations do not involve FNs, we are a minority group, so the registrar rarely deals with FNs and until recently simply treated them as local registrations. Developing the argument now, if the authorities pardon the FNs who have transgressed and they escape without penalty that would be unfair on the FNs who did the 183 days and maybe lost earnings in the process.The cost of the investigation also has to be paid for, why shouldnt the transgressors pay fines to cover the cost? In addition, if pardoned, what kind of message would that convey to the many hundreds if not thousands of wannabee FNs waiting in the wings? Remember, the current message to FNs is "you are not wanted" (for whatever reason) and what better way to get that across than to make examples of the few. regards douglas |
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