Douglas M

Hi again leavinggoa,

Thank you for the confirmation, your background sounds interesting.
I dealt with private clients, offered discretionary investment management and fee based financial planning. I still trade Ftse options and futures on my own acc.

So now weve established that these guys have access to half a century of experience from two analytical minds and we even do it for free. Cant be bad.

Also, bizarre that we have both lived in Goa and both have been excluded.

Regards

douglas

LINEMAN

Hi leavingoa/Douglas
Hope people read and understand what you are
saying. Your experience and knowledge on this subject should I hope
make people think twice, but I wont hold my breath that evryone will
listen, but if one or two think twice about parting with money for
nothing more than a rental aggrement makes your efforts worthwile.

Douglas M

Thanks Lineman,

As i said in a previous post we can only pull a few from the flames, the market will devour the rest.

Ideally, we will soon go beyond feeding them a fish for the day and they will learn to fish for themselves. Some already have.

Its not that difficult folks, just open your mind and do your homework, anyone who can read can come to the same conclusions that we do.

regards to all

leavinggoa

We used to say that 90% of speculators lose money. Everybody thought they were in the other 10%.

samkulk

I fully agree with the post. Please check the Indian laws before buying any property in India

I am providing a link of Reserve bank of India where they have answered the question whether foreign national can buy the property in India and the answer is no. They can lease it for a period not more than 5 years.

[B]Q.6. Can a foreign national of non-Indian origin resident outside India purchase immovable property in India?

A.6. No. A foreign national of non-Indian origin, resident outside India cannot purchase any immovable property in India. But, he/she may take residential accommodation on lease provided the period of lease does not exceed five years. In such cases, there is no requirement of taking any permission of or reporting to Reserve Bank
Here is the link to web site:
http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=33#1[/B]Please be careful.

Sam

karlq

well ive got freinds who have done it,in the last 8 months yes got there deeds ,residency,mutation,ect,do it the proper way,instead of ducking and diving,no problems. too many people trying to set up ltd companys ,no chance,so who,s kidding who ,cant do it in the u.k. i love goa ,nothing will change my mind ,do it le git,in stead of trying to make a quick ,greedy buck out of a lovely place. you wont kid the indians,just accsept its their co untry not ours

leavinggoa

How did they do it? I'm completely legal and cannot register.

Douglas M

Hi karlq and welcome to the thread.

Now i would like to raise a few points with you.

You say that you have( i presume foreign national) freinds who have successfully registered and mutated property in the last eight months. Please give us some dates. The information i have is that the registers were closed around end of august 06, the exclusions started about the same time. If they registered before or around august 06, yes quite possible, but unlikely after that period.

The reasons foreign nationals are being obstructed or excluded is not because they are ducking and diving or are setting up cos versus doing their 183 days or because theyre speculators as you seem to think, its because they belong to two clearly identifiable classes of people. There is a common misconception that I am different to them and therfore in the clear and from that misconception we hear cult like utterances that say something like " it doesnt apply to me, or Im from a special group, Dr bereton said it will be ok etc."

The vulnerabe classes are -

A) Foreign nationals


B) FN s who aspire to, or already own immovable property in india


You clearly have a passion for goa and you think you have complied so far, but thats not relevant, you appear to belong to the target groups outlined above and you are as therefore as vulnerable as the rest of us.

(There is another group of non compliers / bribers who have additional problems, but the numbers are small compared to A and B. and as you say maybe they deserve what they get)

Moving on now to your freinds who have achieved the holy grail of residency and registration,in my view their problems are only just beginning. When they appy to renew their (presumably) x visas they will be asked about their purpose of stay and the period of intention to stay.

If they answer tourist and up to six months , they will probably be issued with a tourist visa, (they might have to go back to uk for it) ,lose their residency and all the priviliges that go with it including the right to sell under the general permission.

If they answer retired and i want to stay forever, they will probably receive an exclusion notice as i did and lose residency etc as above, because the authorities dont like retired FNs who own immovable property!

In support of my argument i enclose a quote from the letter i received from the FRO on 26/10/0 the letter was signed by a Dy supt ( FRO). ( for those who dont know the FROs are the gofors and enforcers for the home office)

"foreigners are not alowed to purchase the property without being eligble under the provisions of FEMA, 1999 and also you have to obtain the permission from the RBI. As per the Ministrys instructions the foreigners have to spend their retired life in their own country.

In view of the above you are directed to leave India immediately"

At first i though the first part must have been a mistake as you technicaly dont need permission from RBI providing you comply with the general permission conditions ( which i did). But then i thought maybe they know something i dont know, ie although the statement is technically incorrect, from now on they will make damned sure you cant comply and therefore the statement is effectively correct.

douglas

Douglas M

Hi again,

Just re read my post , the date of the exclusion notice was 26/10/06.

Bryson7

Hi Douglas,
Now I can see where you are coming from.
There's very little you can say about receiving a letter like that, no if's or but's, just leave. Scary.
No option of a tourist visa just to give you time to get your affairs in order?
I believe similar treatment was recently given to FN's who worked for National Heath Service here in the UK had their contracts withdrawn and then asked to leave.

Douglas M

Hi Bryson7,

Thanks for that, goa and india are on the one hand wonderful places, but on the other hand very much third world.

Regarding my departure, I quickly worked out that i didnt want a tourist visa anyway as i definitely wouldnt have had residency on it and i wanted to sell the house( not surprisingly) .If i just left ( as i did) i may have retained residency for a while and may be able to sell the house? ( see other D posts)

They did in fact give us fourteen days to leave, nice people that they are.

In light of both my personal experience and some daily knowledge gleaned from the english language newspaper the herald, goans and indians go to church and temple regularly , they are family orientated, modest in dress and are often warm and freindly ( especialy to tourists).

They also hang tourists from mango trees, murder priests, bugger two year old babies, kidnap and murder their freinds, take bribes from terrorists to import arms and explosives, murder young brides( est 8000 to 25000 a year) bludgeon other family members to death over land and gold trinkets , riot and burn over religion and territory etc.

Government officers often buy their jobs and they are promoted on payment of further fees, so the standard of competence is low versus recruitment and selection on merit ( which we naturaly presume and expect). Furthermore after buying their jobs they then proceed to extort money from their hapless petitioners in order to pay of the loan shark thet lent them money to buy the job in the first place!( we dont expect that either) .

Thats the real goa too, please all of you balance it out against the whacky and shacky.

I think there may also be an element of reciprocation here as you say, we throw some doctors out and they exclude douglas. Everyone is vulnerable under the visa system, if your thinking of going there long term dont, if youre already there start preparing to leave

douglas

Bryson7

Hi again Douglas,
Just had a thought re. these Lease agreements.
I believe they run for Five years, have you (or any one else) heard of anyone having problems when it comes to renewal time?
Not sure how the law should be read.
Is it, a lease for five years max. then good bye i.e no renewals allowed or is it on "rolling" five year periods.
Is it stated clearly anywhere do you know?

Douglas M

Hi again bryson 7,

Ive covered this in several posts previously, the issues are certainty of wording, conflict with statute, case law and enforcement.

In my view youve got a simple 5 year lease.

If i was in your position i would get together with a group of others in the same position and put some money in the kitty.

I would then either send a copy of the agreement or appoint a representative to meet with a decent lawyer in Mumbai.

Inform him of the statute concerned ie FEMA and the restriction on 5 years max lease and then ask his/her opinion if you have the right to renew under the contract, bearing in mind the four points douglas has outlined (and any others he/she may think of).

If he / she says that in all probability you dont have the right to renew , youve just got a simple 5 year lease and youve already paid the freehold price, id then go back to goa and start rioting, just like the locals would do.

douglas

Douglas M

Hi all,

For the benefit of those who think douglas is nuts ( must be loads of them, but reducing daily)

Ive just been on to india mike and on p19 of the thread foreign owned property in goa ,part two, there is a p williams telling us he had a 5 year x, did everything by the book and is now under investigation.

Please also consider lots of these guys are in shock and it takes a while before they can tell their tale, some never will. Others arent as far down the pipeline as us, so it will be sometime before the wheels fall off, see D s earlier post on pipelines.

regards

Remy-Ireland

Hi Douglas,
A thread has just been started on India Mike on 'renewing a 5 year x-visa.'
People are starting to have big problems in doing so.
I guess this will make interesting reading for all the doubters out there who believe everything is fine in GOGO land.

Regards,
Remy