F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Having visited/lived in Goa for the last 30 yrs,bought a house legally,I have a sale deed,mutation cert 1&14,paid with reserve bank of India permission,lived there for 400 days plus prior to purchase.obtained 5 year x settlement visa I am now being told my house may be confiscated due to the non compliance of F.E.M.A.rules (changed in retrospect to allow greedy officials to profit) Well enough! If I am not allowed to sell my house it,s time to look at the legality of Goans who own property/businesses in the U.K.are they paying tax? are they falsely claiming benifits? Lets start with Mr Vaz!!! there are many internet sites for Goans in the U.K.I am retired and have plenty of time to harass/expose them!!!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Hi dannyman,

Agree with all you have said.

It would serve them right if all the Indian Doctors and the likes of was sent back. Doctors from other nations can be sought the world is a big place.

Goans in the UK: It is high time that these people who may not be paying British tax and falsely drawing benefits are exposed.

As for Mr Vaz sending a fortune of British Tax Payer's money on silk cushions from John Lewis. Who are the fools here?

Go for it dannyman! Hope you expose and harass them as much as possible.

Sunglow.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Thank you Dannyman and welcome. I am going to try to transfer this to Buyer Beware - as it should come under that. Like you my friends and I are in the same situation. I am totall P .... off with the whole situation the greed of the goans, last night a normal 50 rup fare - they wanted 200 one way as it was boxing Day. Enough is enough.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

that sort of thing is very annoying, but have you used a taxi in the UK over Christmas / New Year recently? A couple of years ago I was quoted quadruple fair for New Years Eve - and the b*gger didn't even turn up!

AndyD 8-)#

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Pm me a telephone number and Ill give you several to start with !!!

Dread - reverse the fortunes !
x

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

bad as things are, I assume that you have received a 'Show Cause' notice - to some extent this is a formality, at the very worst you are several years and a hefty lawyers bill short of losing your property.

A word of caution to you and anyone else (including me!) who may be called in by the DofE - I have heard that they don't allow you to have a lawyer actually present (!) and try to trick you into incriminating yourself ("all land is agricultural so write 'I illegally bought agricultural land'; Foreigners can't buy property so write 'I illegally bought when I was a foreigner', you don't have RBI permission so write 'I didn't have the necessary RBI permission' etc etc").
Don't allow yourselves to be bamboozled - and remember I'm told that your lawyer can be in the next room and you can call for his advice as often as you like.

AndyD 8-)#

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Great advice here from Andy :thumbup:

Please do not forget that Gethin Chamberlain from the Guardian still wants to interview someone who will go public on their experiences on Goa property issues as per the very brave "Daff" did earlier this year ( Gethin recently wrote the visa article, see "visa help" #24 noni; http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-india-tourism )

[email protected]

K-C

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Unless things have changed our Advocate stayed with us at the enquiry
. For the show cause notice - our friends have been told they HAVE TO HAVE A LAWYER - expensive to take him to Mumbai when the date is given.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

I do hope that someone will be willing to take up the batton of justice against the unjust. I'm still alive and I haven't had any irate Indian builders or advocates beating down my door either in the UK or in Goa. It only takes one someone to keep the pressure up. And if nothing else at least it may keep the publicity up and prevent others falling into the same trap. Its worth it just for that.
Happy New Year all. Lets pray that 2010 is the year of justice :fingerscrossed:
Daff

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Thanks Andy for inside info.

Are they using 'waterboarding interrogations' at the D of E yet, or are they simply going to make additions to statements and forge signatures? Seems like we are all going to be assumed guilty until proven guilty.

Thanks again Daff. Good to hear they haven't singled you out.

I don't want to read about Lord Mandelson making a diplomatic mission to New Delhi 'to allay Indian fears about changes to the new points based immigration system to UK'. This is not the proverbial 'leaky sieve'; it's an open rain storm drain during full monsoon.

I want the British Government to be cautioning the Indian Government under specific and particular threat of revocation of visas of Indian citizens within the UK who may or may not be acting legally or illegally depending on the whims of our judiciary and immigration authorities on how we might interpret such status, currently or retrospectively, even if they have become naturalized citizens, 'own' business or property.

That is diplomacy!!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Quite right Babu - our Government are weak, only interested in themselves, at least the Russians stand up for their people.

:wub: Happy New Year.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

100% agree with that Noni........the Russians take no crap!!!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

I may well have misunderstood what I was told - probably your lawyer can be present but can't actually answer for you, but can advise you (and you should ask).
I would certainly advise people to have a lawyer, but FEMA clearly says that you can be represented by a lawyer or a chartered accountant (which just goes to show that FEMA was mainly intended to control financial matters).

AndyD 8-)#

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Hi Folks,
As a new member to the forum You will have my support at the next meeting with Ms. VT. As a houseowner (or so I thought!!) and like many others lost my residency (for a variety of lame excuses from Smt. Rina Torcato) and now reduced to a tourist visa I am up s**t creek without a paddle!! Of course there will probably be nothing that we can do but at least you have one more voice that you can count on.
Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this post but I'm new to this so bear with me.

Carbuncle.

me thinks the political gene pool in India could use a little chlorine.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Welcome to the site, which is getting more depressing by the day

HAPPY AND STRESS FREE NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL.:wub:

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

As I posted earlier it,s time to act against Indians living in the U.K. who are abusing our system,either in U.K.illegally or defrauding the benefit system,using the N.H.S.when not intitled to,overstaying visas,bogus student status etc ,etc..information on Goans in U.K. can be found on their website of Goan Voice U.K. and many other sites for Indians in U.K...If you have any information of any Indian abusing our system pass it on to me and I will make damn sure the relevant authorities get to know about it..Let,s not get mad about the Indian rip off lets get even!!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Have taken your private email address out for obvious reasons. like you I cannot understand what we have done wrong when we welcome everybody, whatever colour and creed into UK. There is an interesting article in Nav. Times under opinion which is totally unfair to us.:wub:

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Its quite sad really,disturbing and offensive that people actually presume that British Goans and Indians are illegals, defrauders, etc.

This type of attitude is bordering on racism.......i would like to think all defrauders and people acting illegally etc would be reported to the appropriate authorities irrespective of race, colour or creed.

These types of remarks are counter-productive and i find it hard to comprehend that this mind set still exists out there.
:(

Remy

PS. I wonder what all our Indian/Goan supporters think now!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

People are very upset and very worried as to what's happening and not knowing where all this is going go.

Lets get this straight. Who started the bad feeling in the first place? Prior to July 2006, Fins was encouraged to buy properties in Goa using FEMA.

How was it that the Goan/Indian Government did not know this was taking place when millions of pounds was going through their banking systems? Yet, they allowed this to go on turning a Nelson's Eye when some Government Departments must have been aware of properties that was being advised and sold by Goans to FN's.

It is all this that is leaving a bad taste in many people's mouth's. Only when suited and the big land grabbing with the land at the Northern Beaches were the stops put on.

Many FN's purchased properties in good faith, for their retirement and purely as holiday homes, not to land speculate.

Is about time this issue came to a close OR ARE THEY HOPING THAT WE HAVE ALL DIED OFF BY THEN?

Living in hope that one day all this nightmare will be over.

Sunglow.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Dannyman,

have total sympathy for the situation and feelings that everyone is going through.

try to remember that Goans in the UK are equally flabbergasted. They are at risk in Goa and the UK, without any ability to influence in either. Many worry (and have fallen into real mental anguish) that the ultimate goal of all these manouverings is the deprivation of their own ancestral rights and properties.

ask yourself: how is it that Russians have preferred treatment, when they have no historical link with Goa as compared to the UK. Their link is more with with states outside of Goa.
: how is it that big construction is financed by non locals who purchase lands that have been communally owned for over 10 centuries without consent of the communal owners?
:how is it that Goans need a plethora of authorisations to do anything whilst out of staters can simply walk in and do as they please?

Your reaction is understandable, but reduces all future options. Moreover, there's little doubt, with all the intense scrutiny of non indigenous Brits for security purposes today, that your intended purpose is already being served.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Remy, in your terms such responses are 'shooting yourselves in the foot'. but you are not one of the many Brit expats in Goa who feel they have the proverbial 'gun to their head', and the trigger is being squeezed. You are under no personal stress, threat or intimidation in India or the UK.

Yes, fraud is not at first glance an issue of race, culture or ethnicity; it is universal. There is an abundance of generosity within the UK Welfare System which is wide open to abuse, and there is pitifully little welfare in India even to Indian citizens, and none to foreigners, and no enfranchisement or naturalisation through citizenship of foreigners in India within the electoral or judicial system; infact, no representation at all beyond a woefully silent High Commission.

The treatment meted out to UK citizens in India (and foreigners in general) is not 'bordering on racist' ; IT IS RACIST.

Except, in a so called democracy of 1.2 billion people which can barely hold it's own cultural, ethnic and religious diversity together at the borders of its numerous States ( a new one declared itself last month!), there is no concept of 'racism', equality or fairness.

Why do 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees', many of whom are nothing more than economic migrants, not present themselves in Europe at first port of entry under the European Constitution? Why are they battering our border down by hook and by crook at Calais and elsewhere? Is it the UK's wonderful climate? An overwhelming desire to go shopping at Tescos? The mist rising over the Westway flyover? Think about it.

There are more than 40 Goan Associations in London alone and I know some of the expat members there from Bardez who have managed to settle and prosper, bringing their families over, having been given years of a foothold by welcoming Brits in the form of free accomadation and board, and help with finding employment. Do you know of any British Associations in Goa, and are our Goan friends there doing anything to welcome us other than the money based welcome or the xenophobic, culturally neanderthal rants in the media, or the increasing face to face resentment and hostility? They're having a bad season, they're government shits on them, they elect said goon government, but somehow it's all our fault! :confused:

If there are supporters who are Goan/Indian out there, they are most welcome, and if they do not support us (as seems evident) they are welcome to argue why; just don't depend on a continuing benevolent treatment in the UK.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Hi Sunglow and Babu,

I know people are hurting but posts that kill off support aren't going to help.
A lot of British Goans and Indians have supported FNs to the hilt and cannot be held responsible for Government policy.

Goan Voice has offered great support to the FN cause over the past few years and to read anti British Indian/ Goan posts after such support is gut wrenching and very counter productive........we have now lost the moral high ground!

Also note Douglas was excluded from Goa and had his visa revoked before the russian land grabbing incidents and indeed before many FNs proceeded to buy property in Goa.........many ignored his warnings and indeed scorned them.

So it goes back further than your post indicates and Douglas predicted many of the changes that have taken place. Many FNs bought in good faith and became resident etc and registered their deeds (i have great sympathy for the way these people have been wronged) There are many others however that ignored the warnings, bought illegally on tourist visas and are now crying their lamps out!(these people i have less sympathy for).

Unfortunately now all FNs are caught in the net and it looks like the innocent may go down with the guilty.

Either way to kill off our own soldiers weakens the army and im afraid most PIOs / OCIs / NRIs have already deserted this forum due to the prejudice remarks and racist comments that have been posted, and to be honest im not far behind them.

I read over posts recently and cringed at some of the remarks.

The fight will never be won if FNs continue to alienate themselves and only help justify the Indian Governments views on FNs.

Regards,
Remy:(

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Remy-Ireland. What utter crap you write,firstly I am not racist,nor were my comments,if you read my post I said we should act against Indians living in U.K.who are abusing our laws etc in retaliation for our treatment by their goverment.Secondly it IS rascism on the part of the Indian goverment[F.E.M.A.] to single out non indians and persecute them with ambigous laws.Of course I have many Goan friends who agree our treatment by the goverment is deplorable but they do not hold the levers of power and can only offer sympathy.I am aware there are many people abusing the laws in the U.K.,but they are not trying to take my house away! You mistake my anger for something more sinister..do you think I would have spent the majority of the last 30 yrs in india if I was rascist? Is your house in danger of being confiscated by the Indian goverment? maybe if it was you might offer some practical advice instead of the liberal drival you posted.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Babu1: you forget, conveniently, that the Goans in the UK are mainly Goans who are CITIZENS of the UK and have been for generations. Whats more, most who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries. Your line of thinking is Idi Amin like. Its blind to the background, and driven by convenience. There is nothing 'benevolent' in true citizens of a nation abiding by the rules, partaking in the prosperity of the nation. This is an uncalled, uninformed path you are advocating, with the effect of harming your very own allies......dubya?

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

I will let others be the judge of your post and its relevance to racism!

If you and others think this is constructive then fire ahead by all means as its bound to resolve the current crisis.:rolleyes:

and regarding the latter part of your post i seem to be one of the few that is still offering constructive advice !!!

So far you have contributed 4 posts to this forum......non of which i would call productive or practical!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

100% Agree!

we also seem to forget that over 50 British Goans/Indians signed our petition!
I would like for the same fifty to come back on here and give us their views on the posts of late!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Hear Hear!

AndyD 8-(#

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Could it be that is has been a planned government scam?

Are they not wanting to resolve this property issue on purpose, using delaying tactis, hoping that the marjory of us will have died off without being able to leave our properties to our loved ones in the UK or wherever?

As we die off and having been in a large complex, annual fees will not be paid and properties (apartments) will be left and fees unpaid until they are l too few to pay and the fees too high for the remaining owners.

Are they hoping that people will walk away? Makes one think what their overall long term plan is?

So glad that this meeting by the British High Commission is going ahead on the 21 January as these issues need addressing as to what is going to happen regarding properties and above all when is this issues going to be resolved.

Living in Hope!

Sunglow.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

wheatsheaf :Some are citizens , and many, like my neighbours in Goa who work most of the year in the UK, are not. Yes, it is relatively easy to gain British citizenship through naturalisation and extend that citizenship by marriage, and you can always run to Brussels playing the race card about your human rights when all else fails.

I have not forgotten anything 'conveniently' as you assert; please further inform on how 'most (Goans) who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries.' Historically, I can only see an argument in Europe that they may have contributed to Portugese prosperity 'for centuries'.

I do not believe some 60,000 persons of Goan origin are 'central' to anything within a UK population in excess of 60 million, whether they are citizens or not. This is a more generous position than the Indian Government and the State Government of Goa who evidently do not wish to contemplate any notion of a Goan person of British origin (NRI's and PIO's aside), residing and/or working there, contributing to 'prosperity', and are beyond doubt finding some 500 foreigners in a population of 1.2 billion inordinately 'central'!

There is nothing 'Idi Amin' about my thinking; am I advocating that we torch Swindon?

Contemporary Britain remains a benevolent nation through the very fact that at some point it extended citizenship and all the attendant priveleges to not only Goans, but persons worldwide, and it continues to do so.

Since the focus of Indian resentment regards property seems to be Goa; this hostility instigated by clueless and only self serving Goan politicians regards the rule of law, and the hand of Central Government has been forced to come to a clarification of FEMA which in practice will prove retrospectively harmful to foreigners who were misled to believe they were acting within the law, then the UK government by rights or impulse should have equal free hand to amend and adjust its rule of law. Who gets caught in the crossfire is down to diplomacy. Likewise with visa and immigration policy, including citizenship and the right to take up employment, study or conduct business.

If you contemplate being at the sharp end of the sabre rattling that is coming out of India against British interests then I'm sure those 'generations' of British Goans you speak of will be unequivocal in their shared sense of outrage, so let's hear it from the 'allies' .....duh!

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Remy, you might think 'over 50 Goan/Indians signed our petition', but let me tell you a secret..........;)

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

The property and visa problems are not exclusive to British.
They affect all FNs. Its not a them and us issue!

Over 50 British Goans/Indians did rally round and support us by signing our No.10 petition and Eddie Fernandes Of Goan Voice consistently published stories regarding the FN plight, signed the petition and sent messages of support.

I think its a bit rich to ask them to rally around now after the things that have been written about them over the past 6 months.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Babu1: please try to understand that I have absolutely no desire to inflame your anger further. Not only do I understand it, but I also feel the same anger and disappointment as you do.

Anyone who knows the historical relationship between Goa and Britain, as distinct to that of India and Britain, will understand that your emotional outbursts are misdirected. The current situation is a reflection of the huge changes India is undergoing, and Goa and Goans I think are genuinely flummoxed at the suddenness of it all.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Remy, I have nothing except praise for the stalwart job Eddie Fernandes does at goanvoice, and have thanked him personally on several occasions by e mail. His website remains impartial in directing us to news articles and information about the good and bad in Goa. It is a fantastic resource of information, and I respect his individual stance towards those who are embroiled in the Goan property fiasco. I know he does this in the face of openly hostile opposition from Goans and expat Goans on other Goa forums.

wheatsheaf: Likewise, I have no desire for this to degenerate into a redundant, pointless race based debate. That is irrelevant and counter productive; and, yes, I am aware that Goans in the UK often get a raw and exploitative deal.

My invective is aimed primarily at the UK diplomats who are paid to represent us and yet seem unable to disentangle what, in the broader context of Indian Home Affairs or Domestic Policy is little more than a non malarial mosquito bite on the arm of a burgeoning superpower.

I do not seek that India should open its doors fully to foreign property ownership: I simply implore that they clean up the present property limbo for foreigners in Goa, allow people to sell at fair market value and remove themselves, problem all gone, then clarify and impose their legislation uniformly and make certain all authorities are informed including advocates, agents, accountants, builders, politicians, registrars, mamladtars and the general populace who have been happily selling their properties to foreigners and 'out of Staters'. Job done, and no lingering resentment!

In diplomacy, behind closed doors (or shouting through the media), oftentimes threats are the way in which to reach solution or compromise, whether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not. It is a travesty of justice that we should have reached this point, since it could all be dealt with swiftly and quietly if the political will and competence were put in place.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Phew!!!!. Thank goodness we have arrived at the same place at the same time. Completely agree with you. Moreover, it ultimately benefits India itself, if the rules are clear and justice is seen to be impartial. The fair minded, principled Indians will come forward and get this resolved......we have to get them to act sooner rather than later.

Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
 

Babu I agree with every thing you say. You know the country inside out, and I agree with what you say. There are fair minded principled Goans out there and they have helped us. We need their support and help.:thumbup:
Let us hope that the Government let us either sell up and leave or leave us in peace to enjoy the rest of our short lives.