I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greener"?
Sep 23rd 2011, 11:00 pm
#151
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Berlin is a pretty decent city for a lot of Berliners too. At the moment it is true that the lower end of the tourist market is over represented but that will change.
Berlin has a lot of classical offerings 'looking at what was on in Berlin' in actual fact the diversity in culture is one of the highlights. More business will come with time but hopefully not at the cost of changing the city beyond recognition in the sense that it becomes just another over priced business city.
Berlin has a lot of classical offerings 'looking at what was on in Berlin' in actual fact the diversity in culture is one of the highlights. More business will come with time but hopefully not at the cost of changing the city beyond recognition in the sense that it becomes just another over priced business city.
Sep 24th 2011, 2:58 am
#152
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Leave that in Frankfurt and make Berlin something special. With the economic crisis that looks very likely to consume Europe next year Berlin may be rather glad it is not overly a base for finance anyway.
Berlin having a middle location in Europe can only benefit from it's position as being capital of the richest and hence most important nation in Europe.
Berlin is in the good position that many folk want to be there and the grounds of being a desirable city other things will follow.
I see Berlin as having a multi dimensional and interesting future. A city to be in.
Sep 24th 2011, 3:54 am
#153
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
I don't see it that way. What companies do you see coming to Berlin that really generate wealth? I am not talking about finance. I am talking about that which makes Germany rich and that is the produzierende Mittelstand. I think Berlin has nothing to offer to these companies. They all left after the Berlinzulage was canceled.
Sep 24th 2011, 5:35 am
#154
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Perhaps we should start a new thread on this topic as perhaps getting a little far away from the original question.
But with regards to your assessment on Berlin my thoughts would be for government encouragement of smaller to medium business by creating tax incentives and the like. The Irish done it in the 80s but lost the plot with the over emphasis on housing.
Berlin already has a lower than average empoyment and pay. It's a desirable location where lots of folk want to be.
Already investmeny companies are buying up hundred of apartments in some of the most under priced real estate in Europe for a city of Berlin's status.
Folk in some of the inner areas are already protesting as rents have gone up 20% in recent times.
The money to pat these increases is coming from somewhere. Berlin has taken longer to get going tham most would have imagined but the change is coming. Just hope Berliners are not pushed out of prime locations by outsiders with money.
But with regards to your assessment on Berlin my thoughts would be for government encouragement of smaller to medium business by creating tax incentives and the like. The Irish done it in the 80s but lost the plot with the over emphasis on housing.
Berlin already has a lower than average empoyment and pay. It's a desirable location where lots of folk want to be.
Already investmeny companies are buying up hundred of apartments in some of the most under priced real estate in Europe for a city of Berlin's status.
Folk in some of the inner areas are already protesting as rents have gone up 20% in recent times.
The money to pat these increases is coming from somewhere. Berlin has taken longer to get going tham most would have imagined but the change is coming. Just hope Berliners are not pushed out of prime locations by outsiders with money.
Sep 24th 2011, 7:12 am
#155
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
You probably right. We hijacked the thread. I am going to shut up for once 
Sep 24th 2011, 5:09 pm
#156
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
I can but add to Lothianlad and Pepa's observations about the country today. It's terribly sad what is happening here and I'm not optimistic about the longer term future either, which is why I'm seeking to invest in another country and ultimately move away.
My main motivation for writing, however was to respond to Tsveti, after having read this thread from beginning to end. Good grief, I have never had the misfortune to read more consistently conceited posts from anyone, on any internet forum, ever! She takes great pleasure in deriding the OP as a meritless clown, at the same time as performing a character assisination on the Germans. After that she proceeded to offend a German in this thread, sticking to her guns after being taken to task over this and deriding the Germans as verging on scum, but laterally she has swung the other way and decided that the UK and its society is also worthy of her vitriol, describing people variously as lazy, poorly educated and feckless, whilst taking apparent pleasure in watching social breakdown unfolding from her armchair with 'popcorn'.
Tsveti, you are clearly a very educated and intelligent person, your societal observations are, distilled to their base ingredients, correct about both countries. But your attitude and style is beneath contempt. I'm genuinely surprised that no one else in this thread has taken you to task over this. I wonder why as a foreign national who clearly dislikes both countries you are even a member of this forum?
My main motivation for writing, however was to respond to Tsveti, after having read this thread from beginning to end. Good grief, I have never had the misfortune to read more consistently conceited posts from anyone, on any internet forum, ever! She takes great pleasure in deriding the OP as a meritless clown, at the same time as performing a character assisination on the Germans. After that she proceeded to offend a German in this thread, sticking to her guns after being taken to task over this and deriding the Germans as verging on scum, but laterally she has swung the other way and decided that the UK and its society is also worthy of her vitriol, describing people variously as lazy, poorly educated and feckless, whilst taking apparent pleasure in watching social breakdown unfolding from her armchair with 'popcorn'.
Tsveti, you are clearly a very educated and intelligent person, your societal observations are, distilled to their base ingredients, correct about both countries. But your attitude and style is beneath contempt. I'm genuinely surprised that no one else in this thread has taken you to task over this. I wonder why as a foreign national who clearly dislikes both countries you are even a member of this forum?
why nobody has taken me to task over my attitude and style..yet?
could it be because you are very tolerant? or because i am saying the truth?
just for your information my partner of 4,5 years is english (OX1 to be precise), we both lived and worked in London before (UCL) moving to Germany and will be happily returning there as soon as i am done with my training here. as he is a british expat, i see nothing wrong with me reading/writing in this forum. there are germans who wrote in this thread too - are they british expats, so you are criticising me??
No, you are wrong, i dont hate the english, lived with english people in London and absolutely loved it. And i am very aware about the fact that you are going through a difficult transformation since the UK is not an empire anymore and is getting slowly overcrowded by foreigners. What i have written in my previous posts reflects the reality in the UK from my point of view, exactly as what you have written is an epxression of yours. This is what the forums are for, or have i got it wrong again?
Since all i can read/hear on the newspapers/news is "the eastern europeans this, the eastern europeans that...", i see nothing wrong in expressing my opinion here, you would hopefully understand how we feel about you, specially where the communication is obviously failing and you are being manipulated about us. and you will hopefully one day stop whining about us taking your jobs, (get more flexible and competitive instead), while half of the african continent and 50% of the locals are sponging your country for benefits and have never and will never work.
I dont hate Germany, i learned a lot here, and there is no better country where i could do my training in Neurology, they are indeed the best in my field. But i find the people difficult to communicate with, and i find it very sad that they are being kept under pressure all the time and the psychiatric wards are full. Unfortunately i can not change this. But writing about it would hopefully make some of them think about what i am trying to say...i dont see a reason why a hard working eastern european would be hated, if he/she pays taxes and fills the gaps of their health system, which they desperate need as the german doctors are persistently leaving the country...and it is not the less money that makes them leave, it is the constant bullies/harrasment they have to put up with at work and which seems to be the "normal behaviour" in this country. at least in the hospitals. ask some german doctors if you think i am telling lies and see what they will tell you.
as i am not english/german, my way of expressing what i think/feel is different. accept it or delete my posts if you find them too offensive.
i do not mind.
Last edited by tsveti; Sep 24th 2011 at 5:24 pm.
Sep 24th 2011, 8:26 pm
#157
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
P.S. about the popcorn - why does it annoy you, shall i (the eastern european) go to protest on the streets instead of you???
at the end of the day this is about your country, not mine. it is you, who instead of sitting with a bag of popcorn and watching how your governments is ruining your country, should be out on the streets protesting/fighting to keep the UK the same beautiful country with smiley and polite people it was 30 years ago.
at the end of the day this is about your country, not mine. it is you, who instead of sitting with a bag of popcorn and watching how your governments is ruining your country, should be out on the streets protesting/fighting to keep the UK the same beautiful country with smiley and polite people it was 30 years ago.
Sep 25th 2011, 3:27 am
#158
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
P.S. about the popcorn - why does it annoy you, shall i (the eastern european) go to protest on the streets instead of you???
at the end of the day this is about your country, not mine. it is you, who instead of sitting with a bag of popcorn and watching how your governments is ruining your country, should be out on the streets protesting/fighting to keep the UK the same beautiful country with smiley and polite people it was 30 years ago.
at the end of the day this is about your country, not mine. it is you, who instead of sitting with a bag of popcorn and watching how your governments is ruining your country, should be out on the streets protesting/fighting to keep the UK the same beautiful country with smiley and polite people it was 30 years ago.
Oct 17th 2011, 7:33 pm
#159
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
You Germans better Shut UP cause your guilt is larger than life
Since you are german, how dare you lecture someone about immigrating to western country,first of all because of you we had 2 world wars, then you invaded and destroyed few countries most of them east europeans, then lucky you got invaded by western countries and tough luck western countries sold east europe to soviets just because of your ill german war making attitude,now we have EU whole eastern block is wide open for you corporate cheap boxed junk to be sold everywhere and you think you can keep people who you once destroyed because your hitler idiot and now cause communism felt and your factories survived ? wrong you owe them and you will never able to repay for the damaged you have done and people you have killed
Since you are german, how dare you lecture someone about immigrating to western country,first of all because of you we had 2 world wars, then you invaded and destroyed few countries most of them east europeans, then lucky you got invaded by western countries and tough luck western countries sold east europe to soviets just because of your ill german war making attitude,now we have EU whole eastern block is wide open for you corporate cheap boxed junk to be sold everywhere and you think you can keep people who you once destroyed because your hitler idiot and now cause communism felt and your factories survived ? wrong you owe them and you will never able to repay for the damaged you have done and people you have killed
Troubadour - I'm a German living (and loving it!!!) in the UK, so feel competent to comment on this issue, and I have to say, i couldn't agree with you more!! not sure about the greater sense of family life, but maybe that's just me (I, personally, am not a big family person!).
I don't want to sound harsh, but I sometimes feel that a lot of Eastern Europeans have some rather unrealistic ideas when they emigrate to a Western country, expecting to immediately enjoy the same standard of life as the "Westerners" (and also often falsely labouring under the assumption that ALL of us are very well-off, which is obviously NOT the case - neither in the UK nor in Germany!!). This phenomenon actualy very much reminds me of when the two Germanies reunited and we had the same problems with the East Germans (17 million of them, most of them hoping to have flash cars, bit TVs etcetc within weeks!!).
On the one hand one can't really blame people for seeking a better life for themselves, but on the other hand, it takes a lot of resilience and hard to work to achieve things in life (unless you're lucky enough to have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth :-)). So, frankly, it irks me to read posts like that of the OP, and in my opinion, she is also very unrealistic if she thinks she'll be better off in Germany -my experience has been that they seem a lot more welcome and accepted here in the UK than back home, where a lot of people really sort of look down upon them (which is obviously not nice or fair....a lot of them are very hard-working). Poles, for example, are considered a bit thick and have a reputation for stealing cars....I'm assuming the OP is from Poland!! They also usually have to take crappy jobs like cleaning, so if she has an office job here, she can consider herself lucky, I think!!
I also cannot believe that she's reallly met with all that hostility here - I've had nothing but positive experiences, and I'm from the country that is probably still hated most here in the UK (unfortunately)
I loved it here and am heartbroken to have to move away (to the States) at the end of the month!! Brits, don't let anyone - especially someone who's NOT from the UK!! - tell you otherwise, you have a lovely country with lovely people (and your share of problems,too, of course,just like anyone else!!)
Katrin
I don't want to sound harsh, but I sometimes feel that a lot of Eastern Europeans have some rather unrealistic ideas when they emigrate to a Western country, expecting to immediately enjoy the same standard of life as the "Westerners" (and also often falsely labouring under the assumption that ALL of us are very well-off, which is obviously NOT the case - neither in the UK nor in Germany!!). This phenomenon actualy very much reminds me of when the two Germanies reunited and we had the same problems with the East Germans (17 million of them, most of them hoping to have flash cars, bit TVs etcetc within weeks!!).
On the one hand one can't really blame people for seeking a better life for themselves, but on the other hand, it takes a lot of resilience and hard to work to achieve things in life (unless you're lucky enough to have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth :-)). So, frankly, it irks me to read posts like that of the OP, and in my opinion, she is also very unrealistic if she thinks she'll be better off in Germany -my experience has been that they seem a lot more welcome and accepted here in the UK than back home, where a lot of people really sort of look down upon them (which is obviously not nice or fair....a lot of them are very hard-working). Poles, for example, are considered a bit thick and have a reputation for stealing cars....I'm assuming the OP is from Poland!! They also usually have to take crappy jobs like cleaning, so if she has an office job here, she can consider herself lucky, I think!!
I also cannot believe that she's reallly met with all that hostility here - I've had nothing but positive experiences, and I'm from the country that is probably still hated most here in the UK (unfortunately)
I loved it here and am heartbroken to have to move away (to the States) at the end of the month!! Brits, don't let anyone - especially someone who's NOT from the UK!! - tell you otherwise, you have a lovely country with lovely people (and your share of problems,too, of course,just like anyone else!!)
Katrin
Last edited by polishvisitor; Oct 17th 2011 at 7:37 pm.
Oct 18th 2011, 1:07 am
#160
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Polishvisitor, get a life and arrive in the 21st century!!
Today's Germans have nothing to do with the wars.
Get that chip off your shoulder and move on!!
Today's Germans have nothing to do with the wars.
Get that chip off your shoulder and move on!!
Oct 18th 2011, 6:26 am
#161
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Thats your opinion,most of the people have different idea, maybe ask some people in Israel or even egyptians who their treasures were stolen and until today on display in Berlin, not to mention,rounding out and wiping out entire generation of intelectuals in some countries,and that did not slowed down progress in eastern europe? yes, germans are friendly people and present generations do not prosper from atrocities
Oct 18th 2011, 6:51 am
#162
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Oh, this thread has hit rock bottom.
Oct 18th 2011, 9:11 am
#163
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
You Germans better Shut UP cause your guilt is larger than life
Since you are german, how dare you lecture someone about immigrating to western country,first of all because of you we had 2 world wars, then you invaded and destroyed few countries most of them east europeans, then lucky you got invaded by western countries and tough luck western countries sold east europe to soviets just because of your ill german war making attitude,now we have EU whole eastern block is wide open for you corporate cheap boxed junk to be sold everywhere and you think you can keep people who you once destroyed because your hitler idiot and now cause communism felt and your factories survived ? wrong you owe them and you will never able to repay for the damaged you have done and people you have killed
Since you are german, how dare you lecture someone about immigrating to western country,first of all because of you we had 2 world wars, then you invaded and destroyed few countries most of them east europeans, then lucky you got invaded by western countries and tough luck western countries sold east europe to soviets just because of your ill german war making attitude,now we have EU whole eastern block is wide open for you corporate cheap boxed junk to be sold everywhere and you think you can keep people who you once destroyed because your hitler idiot and now cause communism felt and your factories survived ? wrong you owe them and you will never able to repay for the damaged you have done and people you have killed
German taxpayers have every right to question where their money is going to shore up inept governments and banks in Europe as well as question who comes into the country. As does any other country.
It is a shame German industry has in part relocated to countries with lower standards principally East European locations where wages are far lower. Couldn't agree more.
Poland seems to be moving economically ahead which may assist more of its inhabitants to remain and be able to earn a reasonable living instead of joining their million plus country men in UK along with other countries such as Ireland where in present conditions the influx is anyway in reverse. Plenty of Irish moving out as well.
Oct 18th 2011, 1:43 pm
#164
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
Thats your opinion,most of the people have different idea, maybe ask some people in Israel or even egyptians who their treasures were stolen and until today on display in Berlin, not to mention,rounding out and wiping out entire generation of intelectuals in some countries,and that did not slowed down progress in eastern europe? yes, germans are friendly people and present generations do not prosper from atrocities
I know that's maybe easier said than done, but you're not doing yourself any favours by living in the past!!!
Oct 27th 2011, 9:30 am
#165
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Re: I am tired of England..Thinking of Germany, but isnt the case of "grass is greene
This isnt a geographical reference but the fact they were in the soviet 'eastern bloc'.
