born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezenship
#16
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
Don't think a German certificate will be forthcoming due to SOFA (Status of Forces) agreement 1949.
No obligation to register birth with local German authorities.
(https://www.pref.okinawa.jp/site/chi...ermany02-2.pdf)
In fact this rule would also apply to Canadian Forces...so its a bit strange that there is no reciprocation there..maybe that's an avenue to explore.
No obligation to register birth with local German authorities.
(https://www.pref.okinawa.jp/site/chi...ermany02-2.pdf)
In fact this rule would also apply to Canadian Forces...so its a bit strange that there is no reciprocation there..maybe that's an avenue to explore.
There are rules for children born to serving members of the forces as I mentioned above but they have been revised several times and the rules are strict these days it seems.
(https://assets.publishing.service.go...en-v5.0ext.pdf)
(https://assets.publishing.service.go..._MN1-Jul19.pdf)
(https://assets.publishing.service.go...en-v5.0ext.pdf)
(https://assets.publishing.service.go..._MN1-Jul19.pdf)
#17
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
I think your best bet is to try the UK and see if the "ARMY" Birth certificates can be exchanged for a regular UK one, or that UK authorities can offer a support document of some kind. I presume your kids have UK Passports? In which case the original birth documents are obviously accepted by UK authorities. Anyway, good luck.
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2015
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 262
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
Hi all.
Perhaps I can try and help clarify this; I'm ex-HM Forces and our children were also born in Germany at a British Military Hospital. The immigration status of all UK citizens working in British Forces Germany (not just BAOR which is an Army based organisation) is/was decided by the NATO Status of Forces Agreement in place between the Host Nation (Germany) and the other country (in this case the UK, but there are (were?) other such arrangements in place, i.e. USA, Canada, Belgium, Netherlands); you can read a copy of the agreement at this link on the German Government website.
The specifics of the Agreement were further amplified by the "Supplementary Agreements"; you can download a PDF version of it from this link. Items of interest to this discussion is:
Article 15 - " The obligation under German law to report births and deaths to a German registrar shall not apply either with respect to a child born to, or with respect to the death of, a member of a force or of a civilian component or a dependent".
So British Forces Germany operated the UK national scheme on behalf of the UK Government and issued legal UK Birth certificates to all entitled personnel when appropriate (i.e. on the birth of a child); the only difference in the one issued to my twins in Germany, to the normal one issued to my eldest daughter who was born in the UK, is the address of the issuing department (i.e. eldest = Swindon, Twins = HQ BAOR, BFPO 40).
Hope this helps.
Perhaps I can try and help clarify this; I'm ex-HM Forces and our children were also born in Germany at a British Military Hospital. The immigration status of all UK citizens working in British Forces Germany (not just BAOR which is an Army based organisation) is/was decided by the NATO Status of Forces Agreement in place between the Host Nation (Germany) and the other country (in this case the UK, but there are (were?) other such arrangements in place, i.e. USA, Canada, Belgium, Netherlands); you can read a copy of the agreement at this link on the German Government website.
The specifics of the Agreement were further amplified by the "Supplementary Agreements"; you can download a PDF version of it from this link. Items of interest to this discussion is:
Article 15 - " The obligation under German law to report births and deaths to a German registrar shall not apply either with respect to a child born to, or with respect to the death of, a member of a force or of a civilian component or a dependent".
So British Forces Germany operated the UK national scheme on behalf of the UK Government and issued legal UK Birth certificates to all entitled personnel when appropriate (i.e. on the birth of a child); the only difference in the one issued to my twins in Germany, to the normal one issued to my eldest daughter who was born in the UK, is the address of the issuing department (i.e. eldest = Swindon, Twins = HQ BAOR, BFPO 40).
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Cynic; Sep 14th 2019 at 3:47 pm.
#19
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
Normally you would expect a military birth certificate to be issued under the BMD (Special Provisions) Act 1957.
#20
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2015
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 262
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
I agree; I shall check my sons Birth Certificate when he gets home, you would expect some reference on it under which legislation the document was issued.
There was a Department within HQ British Forces Germany that from their title, did nothing else but this kind of thing, but the whole thing is now a historical relic with none of the structures or people left in place to help the OP. This can't be the first time this has happened, many British servicemen married Canadian citizens (the Suffield, Alberta complex was almost exclusively devoted to BAOR based British soldiers) and moved to Canada at the end of their service. There is however a miltary Forum called the Army Rumour Service (link); perhaps a question in there will prompt someone who either knows the answer themselves, or knows someone who will.
However, I think that the fact that we now have verifiable documentary evidence that the German Government have stated in the NATO Status of Forces Agreement that they do not issue German birth certificate in respect of children under which the Agreement applies, perhaps the OP should speak to her MP in Canada to see if he/she can't speak some sense with the Minister responsible.
There was a Department within HQ British Forces Germany that from their title, did nothing else but this kind of thing, but the whole thing is now a historical relic with none of the structures or people left in place to help the OP. This can't be the first time this has happened, many British servicemen married Canadian citizens (the Suffield, Alberta complex was almost exclusively devoted to BAOR based British soldiers) and moved to Canada at the end of their service. There is however a miltary Forum called the Army Rumour Service (link); perhaps a question in there will prompt someone who either knows the answer themselves, or knows someone who will.
However, I think that the fact that we now have verifiable documentary evidence that the German Government have stated in the NATO Status of Forces Agreement that they do not issue German birth certificate in respect of children under which the Agreement applies, perhaps the OP should speak to her MP in Canada to see if he/she can't speak some sense with the Minister responsible.
#21
Re: born under British Forces now problems with birth certificates and citezensh
The OP just needs to provide an explanation and get it escalated beyond the first ‘computer says no’ level to a supervisor.