1246aimee

Hi there,

I'm after some advice please. My significant other and I have (after 2 years) finally decided to take the leap and move to the south of France, leaving professional jobs and the hustle of 'the status quo' behind. We are fortunate to already have a temporary base just south of Carcassonne and will be planning on staying there until we can become fully self sufficient.
He is a fully qualified and brilliant motor technician (17 years with Halfords) and I work training managers for a large recruitment agency. Neither of us speak good French, but we are desperate to learn (and where better to learn than France?!).
Now we have decided, I'm just a little confused as to where to start - We will both need to work, with the aim of setting up our own English speaking garage over time, but we really aren't fussy as to what we do, as long as we can support ourselves whilst finding our feet. And also, when would be the best time to come over? My house is currently up for sale, and with a family wedding in September it would be around October time, I'm conscious that this is the end of the summer season so would we be limited in what work we could find?

Your help and guidance is much appreciated!

Kind Regards

Aimee

Chatter Static

Welcome to the section, I hope you are aware France imposes some pretty serious social charges on businesses so making one work is hard work. Your OH will probably fair better than yourself in the career world but French is a must. Im not convinced managers here get trained at anything possibly in cities they do but south of Carcassonne probably not so much. Next issue that finding work here at the moment is pretty damm hard even if you safe fluent French speaker.

That whole region of France goes into winter wind down around then and anywhere that is driven by tourism will be pretty quite over the winter.

If you want your business to survive it really needs to be aimed at the French not English speakers aiming it at Brit's will get you stuck in a bubble which will result in certain doom imho.

InVinoVeritas

Hi and welcome to the forum.

This is issue has been dealt with many times before so a good start is to search the French forum for similar threads or even better search Google for "working in France" and include britishexpats.com in the search.

Good luck, IVV

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!
Have to say that it isn't the time to move to France without jobs lined up and without speaking adequate French to find any. Be aware that the Languedoc-Roussillon Region has one of the highest unemployment rates, esp. in rural areas, and your partner would face stiff competition from equally qualified French candidates for any garage jobs going. I rather suspect that your own job profile won't get you far, as managers are either trained in-house or come out of the French Business Schools. And if such "trainers" exist, they have to be well acquainted with the French Social and Labour Laws (among others).
Another aspect is your healthcare coverage - you will both have to take out private healthcare insurance and even if one of you finds a salaried job or sets up a business and gets into the System, the other one probably won't be covered, all the while you aren't legally bound. (You said "significant other" which presumably means that you aren't married or in a civil union?).
Which brings us to the question of "partners" and Property and Inheritance Laws, but this will only apply if you buy property. The Notaire will advise as to how to protect each other's interests. If you rent, after your "temporary base" is no longer available, be aware that landlords require justification of a regular income (payslips, money in a bank account doesn't count) 3-4 times the monthly rent.
This probably isn't the answer you were hoping for, but it's realistic and should give you food for thought.
My best advice would be to keep your UK house, stay in the UK, learn French and keep up to date with the economic situation here, and consider coming over next year....

cyrian

Yes France is a great place to learn French but you need to have a certain level of French to meet people who are prepared to talk to you.
That is how I improved my French - but I joined a club and spoke French to the other members from day one.
I also went for lessons before I came to France.
My OH is fluent in French.
If you are not working or at school or college etc then you can spend days without actually speaking to a French person.
Good luck

Touraine

I would not set up a garage unless you went into partnership with a French mechanic.

A mobile mechanic focused towards the expat market might work in that area. All you need is a van and some tools. There are plenty of expat type mechanics in France earning such a living. If you were round my way you are more than welcome to come and fix my car.

In terms of yourself, you have zero chance of finding a job in your chosen career. In fact, you probably have zero chance of finding any job. Welcome to France.

If you make the jump (and I strongly recommend that you don't) your best bet is working with your partner in a marketing role drumming up business.

Good luck

EuroTrash

Assuming your partner can't find work and has to set up on his own, he would need his qualifications to be approved (I believe motor mechanic is a regulated profession because of the public safety aspect), he would obviously need insurance, he would need to set up a business structure and pay social charges which usually come to approx 45% - 55% of profit. So you can see that making a living from a small business isn't exactly a breeze in the park, you need to have a good business head and the system isn't sympathetic if you find yourself struggling - you pay your cotisations first and if there's nothing left to live on because you did the sums wrong, that's tough. If you don't have any experience of being self-employed you'll need to work hard at getting your head round the business side and it won't be easy if your French isn't great. So if you really want to do this, be aware what you're taking on and get googling; because finding salaried work is not going to be easy and until you have an income you will have no healthcare either, so unless you have enough savings to live on and pay for private health insurance for maybe a year or so, you'll have to hit the ground running.
I think you may have to rethink your own career, what you do doesn't seem very relevant to working in France.
That's my two penn'oth, apart from to say bon courage and good luck.

1246aimee

Thank you all for your honest words and for taking the time to reply. This strengthens my thoughts about making the move next year, and also gives us a realistic view on what to expect.

I am 100% aware that to continue my career in France is a complete dead end - but that's not a problem. As stated in the above I would be willing to do any type of work, I'm not afraid of hard graft and am fully aware of what may or may not lie ahead job wise.
It's good to know about the business aspects, and since posting I have arranged 1-2-1 tuition with a French teacher, as well as Skype conversations (in French) with family friends we have out there. In all honesty I am disappointed that there has not been a more positive repose to my post with practical advice to help us get started, but again I do appreciate the long term business advice and immediate guidance on social issues offered here. It does help to stay grounded, yet does not deter the desire to get out and live our lives where we want to be. Everyone has to start somewhere eh?

EuroTrash

TBH I'm a little confused by that comment, how can you decide you're going to do something before you know what's going to be involved? The way I've always approached important decisions, first of all you decide what you would like to do, then you do your homework and find out what would be involved, and then you decide whether, knowing what's involved and what the risks are, you still want to do it. But you seem to have skipped the first two steps.

That's confusing too because you said in your first post you both need to work, and now you're saying you are fully aware that you might not get a job.

Sorry if it all sounds unencouraging, but it would be irresponsible to say 'Yes Carcassone's great and it's easy to find jobs, come on over you'll have a ball'. Of course we all wish you well. It's just that, speaking personally, I know French people who have been unemployed and looking for work for a year and more, and I find it quite painful watching them go through it. The hopes when they get offered an interview, the disappointment when they don't get the job, the frustration, the worries as the end of their chomage entitlement gets closer. Trying to cheer them up, well you run out of encouraging things to say to them. And these are well-qualified French people who should be very employable, one has had a career but her firm went out of business (owing her several months wages), one is a first-jobber but she's got good IT qualifications and done stages and got good reports. Plus they don't have to worry about healthcare because they've lived in France all their lives and they're in the system and being looked after and supported. So, that's probably why my heart sinks a bit at the idea of anybody who 'needs to work' voluntarily giving up good careers and free NHS healthcare to potentially put themselves through the same, with no entitlement and no support. The unavoidable fact is that the French economy is still struggling and most employers are reluctant to take on new employees because employing somebody is so expensive.

Could you maybe start looking jobs in France while you're still working in the UK, and wait until one of you has a job to come to?

As regards practical advice, well in terms of looking for jobs, why not get in touch with all the recruitment agencies in Carcassonne and ask if they'll take you onto their books, they may not want to until you arrive but at least you'll have made contact. I expect you've found job sites like indeed.fr, there are plenty of online jobs boards. When you write or email for jobs direct you'll need to compose a very good 'lettre de motivation' in French explaining why you want the job and why you're the right person for it, and you'll need to have a French-style CV, written in French obviously, to send with your application. In terms of when to come over, I would avoid August in any case if you're hoping to start serious hunting straight away because most businesses outside of tourism close for annual holidays in August.

Hope this helps. Not sure what other practical advice you're looking for, you say you have a temporary base lined up so presumably you know the area and have friends here who can help.

dmu

+1
@aimée: one practical suggestion - you could look on the "Pôle-Emploi" site to get an idea of what jobs are available in the area at the moment.
"Just south of Carcassonne" isn't very specific, but does mean that it's not in the town itself. Is your temporary base in a village, or a small town like Limoux?
You could ask on a regional expat forum (of the AngloInfo ilk) but I don't see what other practical advice they could give. As ET suggests, your friends should be able to help if they're on the spot.

Touraine

If you had a realistic view of what to expect it would strengthen your resolve NOT to move to France.

To be clear, you will not find a job. Does not matter how hard working you are, if you are happy cleaning toilets or stacking shelves you will not find employment. If you do, you will not be able to live from it. You need to understand that point now. Fluent French (will take at least 15 years to become fluent) will not increase much your chances of finding a job. If you want to move, you need to take a job with you.

Your OH will unlikely be offered employment so he will have to go it alone. French car terms are very complicated and difficult to pronounce and he will certainly need written French. It will take years and years and years to learn French to an acceptable standard to offer a service to the French. Even then, the French will prefer a French mechanic. You will not change that mindset.

The only chance your OH has got of earning an income is providing a service to other expats. But once you have paid your taxes/healthcare you will have nothing if anything to live on.

This is reality France. The practical advice is (given you both have jobs) is not to move to France to be unemployed because that is what you will be. Besides, France is not worth the hastle. You won't find a better quality of living in France unless you have a lot of money.

dmu

Thinking the other arguments might have made you change your mind, I didn't mention the Poverty Threshold in France before now. From
Le taux de pauvreté [Indicateurs & Indices, Développement durable, Indicateurs de développement durable territoriaux, Cohésion sociale et territoriale] : Observation et statistiques
you'll see that the Aude is among the départements with the highest percentage of poor people. I said before that the Région has one of the highest unemployment rates in France, so it follows.....
I can't find the latest official figures, but a couple who has a regular joint income of less than about 1200€ per month can be considered on the bread-line. This figure covers the basics for survival, utilities, insurance, etc.., but not private healthcare insurance, travel, receiving guests, the unexpected repair, ... Low-income French people are usually entitled to benefits, but foreign newcomers wouldn't be...
Even if you're willing to do menial jobs, it's unlikely that your regular monthly income would exceed the official Poverty Threshold, and you'd be dipping in your savings.
But if you're willing to live in such circumstances, it's your decision!

EuroTrash

Just to explain the French mindset regarding employment as I've encountered it here - other people in other areas may have different experiences.

Every job seems to be respected for what it is, including 'menial' jobs. It's not like the UK where some jobs are regarded as dross and are up for grabs for anybody who can't find anything better. Here, kids are expected to choose a realistic career, get the right qualifications and start getting experience in that chosen career. The idea is that there everybody is part of the national labour force, everyone in their own slot and all valuable in their own way. Within the labour force employers will find suitably trained and skilled candidates for every job, from whom to choose and once chosen, to develop - France is big on lifeling training and development; every employee, no matter how menial, is entitled to training funded jointly by the state and the employer every year. And employers respect the 'social contract' side of it, they know that the job they are providing is valuable and they want to give it to a deserving and "sérieux" candidate. So, if somebody wants a cleaner they will look somebody who has chosen to be a cleaner, and if you've never cleaned and don't really want to clean, you just want a job, you're unlikely to get preference.

Sorry to go on, but just to try and explain why getting a very menial job in France is probably harder than in the UK where AFAIK a job is just a job and this mindset doesn't really exist.

BEVS

Insightful post Eurotrash. Interesting to try to understand the way of thinking with regard to employment. Having read what you have written, I 'get' it.

Obviously , as many of you know , my eyes were originally turned to France before we emigrated to New Zealand over a decade ago.

I have a question for both the opening poster and for the rest of you.

1. Is there a real need anywhere in France for an "English speaking garage".

2. What has made you think 1246aimee, that such a business would be viable.

petitefrancaise

I know of one guy just south of Toulouse who has a garage/car repair business. He's English but been there for years and years so speaks french too. He gets lots of business from the airbus crowd who can't speak enough french to get their car done and because he 's really good/honest etc he also gets customers who do speak french.

But really, you are going to have to deal with suppliers etc so it's a bit of a cop-out not to learn french. You'd be mad to try this in the Aude.