Which Visa
 

Hi All,

We run a small business on the South Coast of England. We are going to set up a subsidiary in France for our EU fulfilment, ie send parcel to the new company in France that will then be forwarded to the relevant EU customers ( B2B ). The New co will be owned in its majority by the UK company with the rest of the shares being owned by a local French resident who will run the company logistically on a day to day basis. My question is what sort of VISA would be best for myself as a UK citizen. I would need to attend the EU office and do some work there as well as cover for holiday / sickness periods when required.

Comments welcomed.

K

Re: Which Visa
 

If you don't intend to live in France I think you would simply apply for a business visa as and when you need to be in France.
https://france-visas.gouv.fr/voyages-d-affaires
Edit - having said that, I'm not sure it's correct. Hmm. You'd need to look into what it allows - does it give you the right to work as such, what about social security cover. Not sure, sorry.
But applying for a residence visa would potentially create all kinds of nightmares I. think. A French-resident owner of a UK company operating in France... best avoided.

Re: Which Visa
 

Coming back to it this morning I still don't see an easy way to do this. Maybe look into short-term inter-group transfers?
I suspect (actually I know) there are folks who discreetly nip over the Channel on the visa waiver as if going as a tourist, and quietly do what they have to do. The chances of anything getting picked up are low, as long as you don't do it too often, but the consequences if it is picked up could be high.
Pre Brexit Brits were able to work across borders because as EU citizens they had the automatic right to work in the EU. That's the big stumbling block. Being a shareholder in a French company does not automatically restore this right.

Re: Which Visa
 

The Schengen Visa waiver allows visa free travel for up to 90 days in 180 and includes travelling for "Business meetings"-- If you are not going to be resident in France then I do not se that you need a visa and probably what you are intending to do would be classed as business meetings frankly.
However if you look at the french visa wizard under Professional activities you will find a short stay visa for business purposes and remuneration

https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en/web/...usiness-travel

Re: Which Visa
 

Thanks for the input guys it is appreciated. I am not trying to find a way to get around things I am juts looking for certainty without any potential issues down the line. It may be that this ends up in the too hard basket and we take the easy (easier) option which is Ireland. However we do have many more customers in France than Ireland and it would be a very good spot for us.

K

Re: Which Visa
 

Business meetings and conferences aren't a problem, but working in the office on a regular basis, covering for staff sickness and holidays...?
I am sure URSSAF has a view on what constitutes attending a business meeting or conference and what constitutes performing a professional activity.
Ireland would definitely be the safer and easier option. And probably less onerous in terms of business tax, social taxes etc.

Re: Which Visa
 

So we have found a local French person who is interested to deal with our shipping / forwarding of parcels. They don't want / need to become a director of the new French company and are happy to work from home doing this. If I become the sole director of a new SARL as a UK resident, would I be liable for French social security payments?

Re: Which Visa
 

Obviously you need to get personalized professional advice on this.
But this is an "expert" response to that exact question:
https://www.lappelexpert.fr/question...fran%C3%A7ais.
and it is pretty much what I would have guessed.
As a majority director of a SARL you're classed as an independent worker not an employee of the company.
If you take no remuneration from the SARL you will have no income to report to France in any case so the question will not arise.
But presumably you will want to take an income?
In which case basically, yes you have to pay cotisations but not as much as if you lived in France. That at least iswhat this person says and what I suspected.
Read the link and see what you make of it

Re: Which Visa
 

Thanks ET, this is appreciated although my French isn't up to that article. I wouldn't be taking any income from the SARL as my income comes from the UK company. The UK company would be 90% shareholder with the French person taking the other 10% shares.

Kereru

Re: Which Visa
 

Ok well in that case I think you wouldn't have any personal liabilities in France, just corporate dues to pay.

It would be worth running the link through a translation engine I think because it is a response to your exact question and it seems to me a very well-informed explanation.

Re: Which Visa
 

Hi! Sorry to state the obvious, but if your French isn't up to that article, then you'll need a trustworthy French professional to deal with all the bureaucracy involved in your venture. Make sure that the French person holding the other 10% shares is competent to do so....
As suggested, Ireland would probably be a better solution, if only from the language viewpoint....
(I used to be Gérante of a Sà rL and the mere mention of URSSAF still makes me cringe, 20 years afterwards....)

Re: Which Visa
 

Hi ET,
Coming back to this thread, If I wanted to do some work for the newco in France without any remuneration and want to go back and forth as I please, would a talent or micro entrepreneur visa be suitable? I was looking at the visa wizard on gouv,fr but apart from FAQ's it doesn't seem there is any one to contact for advice.

K

Re: Which Visa
 

The problem is that to apply for a talent visa or an entrepreneur visa (not a micro entrepreneur visa - ME is a specific business structure whereas the visa applies to any enterprise structure), you will need to submit a business plan that demonstrates you would personally earn an annual business income at least equivalent to SMIC. You won't get a visa for a business that is not going to provide the visa holder with a living income, or to look at it the other way, that isn't going to result in the visa holder contributing fully to the French social security system.

Re: Which Visa
 

Hmm that is a bit chicken and egg. I don't need to take an income from the new French co as I am paid sufficiently by the UK parent company but what I want / need to do is to be able to come and go as I please and to take the reins if necessary etc.

Re: Which Visa
 

Indeed, but unfortunately, there is no visa for that, that I am aware of.
The fact is that immigration has to bring benefits to both sides. What you have to ask yourself is: What would France gain from allowing third country citizens to nip in and out at will and do work for French companies, what would that person contribute to the French economy or society? The person wouldn't pay social security to France, wouldn't pay income tax to France, they would in effect be taking work away from a legal French resident - who would be remunerated and pay soc sec and income tax. And if there's no benefit to France, why would it issue them a visa?
I know you don't see it like that, and your circumstances are a bit specific in that it's your own company, and I'm sure you wouldn't intentionally abuse it by doing work yourself in order to avoid paying a French worker, but the potential for abuse would be there. Everybody has to abide by the same immigration rules which are designed to protect French and EU workers, because like every EU country France puts its own citizens first and EU citizens second. Hence the rules are that a TCN can't work in France without a professional visa, and professional visas are only issued to people who are going to contribute personally to the French economy. You wouldn't be the first person to discover that what you want/need to do, is not permitted under the immigration laws of the country you want to do it in.
I haven't reread the thread but I imagine it's been mentioned that you can get a short term business visa each time you want to come to France for an acceptable professional reason such as business meetings, training sessions etc. But not a visa that gives you carte blanche to come and go and do what you want when you want.
In a way it's a Brexit bonus because of the visa issue but even if the UK were still a member, you'd still face the issue that France doesn't allow a person to perform a functional role within a company without remuneration. So you could do it quite easily and probably get away with it but there is a chance it could cause a serious issue for the company at some point in the future, in the unlikely event that a labour inspector turned up for a random (or not so random) check while you were sitting at a desk and obviously working. It's not unknown for employees who have developed a grudge against their company, to report suspected breaches of the labour code.