UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Jan 9th 2018, 9:08 pm
#1
Austin. TX.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,930
UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Jan 9th 2018, 10:36 pm
#2
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,192
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Quelle surprise
Jan 10th 2018, 7:38 am
#3
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
So, that's a relief for all those already resident in the EU pre-Brexit and dependent on their UK rights, although movement within the EU sounds uncertain.
Maybe this could start a Sticky (in the individual countries and the "Europe" section), and further official info for post-Brexit can be added?
Jan 10th 2018, 8:35 pm
#4
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 44
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Nice sentiments, but that first paragraph is an out and out lie.
Anyway, as it stands, nothing is agreed and/or guaranteed yet.
Anyway, as it stands, nothing is agreed and/or guaranteed yet.
Jan 11th 2018, 12:25 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 143
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Until the ink is dry on the legislation, nothing is certain. What matters, for me, is what guidance is provided to the prefectures post-Brexit.
We are living in interesting times. :-/
We are living in interesting times. :-/
Jan 11th 2018, 1:36 pm
#6
Account Closed
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 0
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Unfortunately there is no record of the ancient Chinese curse 'May you live in interesting times' ever being used in China. Certainly is appropriate now, though.
Jan 13th 2018, 9:53 am
#7
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
As regards the original post, I know that lots of people out there still believe in fairies, Santa Claus and the benefits of Brexit.
Jan 13th 2018, 4:50 pm
#8
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Jan 14th 2018, 8:14 am
#9
M.O.V.E.D. !
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Charente Maritime
Posts: 9,346
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Isn't the slogan : Nothing is decided till everything is decided !
I know I don't pay much attention to whatever U-turn May promises.
I know I don't pay much attention to whatever U-turn May promises.
Dec 16th 2018, 4:07 pm
#10
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 143
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
The UK government published the following unofficial translation of the French government's advice to British citizens in France:
French Ministry of Interior Guidance: Residence
The French Ministry of the Interior have published a website to help UK nationals living and working in France (https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actual...pare-au-Brexit).
We have requested that the French authorities provide an official translation of their guidance, but our team have produced an informal, non-official version below. This section covers residence. We will translate the other sections shortly.
RESIDENCE
Will it be necessary for UK nationals to obtain a residence permit? What will be the steps to take to obtain a residence permit?
In the event of the Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
UK nationals present in France before 31 December 2020 will have to apply for the new permit provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement. They will have until at least July 2021 to make the request, according to procedures and a calendar which will be specified in due course.
UK nationals who arrive in France after 1 January 2021 will have to apply for a permit under the standard system [“un titre de droit commun” –i.e. non EU/EEA].
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
It will be necessary to apply for a residence permit after 29 March 2019 according to procedures that will be specified in due course.
What are the official criteria for UK nationals already in France who would like to apply for a residence permit?
In the event of the Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
The official criteria will be the same as those currently in place for the recognition of a right of residence for an EU national. UK nationals will have to demonstrate that they fall into one of the following categories:
UK nationals will be asked to demonstrate that they have resided in France before 30 March 2019 under one of the conditions for right of residence:
Will residence permits obtained before March 2019 still be valid after the March deadline?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
EU residence permits obtained before March 2019 (possession of which is not obligatory) will continue to be valid during the transition period until 31 December 2020. However, beyond that period, they will have to be replaced by the new permits provided for in the [Withdrawal] Agreement. Applications for permits can be submitted according to a timetable which will be specified in due course and in any scenario you will have until at least July 2021 to do so.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Residence permits obtained before 30 March 2019 will have to be exchanged according to a schedule that will be specified in due course.
Is a UK national who has been issued a residence permit obliged to take steps to exchange it if he/she moves house?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force or without a Withdrawal Agreement
A UK national who has received a residence permit before 30 March 2019 will have to declare their change of address when applying for a new residence permit.
Will the residence permits issued in France allow mobility within the other countries of the European Union?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
Residence permits issued in France will allow travel in the other states forming part of the Schengen area for periods not exceeding three months. They will only allow residence in France.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Residence permits issued in France will allow travel in the other states forming part of the Schengen area for periods not exceeding three months. They will only allow residence in France.
Will UK nationals have to obtain a work permit in order to continue their professional activity in France?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
UK nationals who started their professional activity in France before 31 December 2020 will not need a work permit. Only those who have settled in France from 1 January 2021 will be subject to the requirement to apply for a work permit.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
UK nationals having started their professional activity in France before 29 March 2019 will not need a work permit. However, they will be required to apply for a residence permit. This permit will allow them to establish their right in practice. UK nationals arriving in France after 29 March 2019 or starting their professional activity after 29 March 2019 will have to obtain a work permit.
What are the criteria for issuing EU/EEA/Swiss citizen residence permits (first 5 years) for self-employed workers?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
A UK national exercising an independent professional activity before 31 December 2020 must prove by any means available the regular, real and lasting nature of his activity. The supporting documents to be provided are the same as those currently listed on the website www.service-public.gouv.fr for issuing a residence permit to EU citizens exercising a self-employed activity.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
A UK national exercising an independent professional activity must prove by any means available the regular, real and lasting nature of his activity in order to obtain a residence permit corresponding to his situation, according to procedures to be specified later.
Will family members (third-country nationals) of a UK national have a special status?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
Third-country nationals who are family members of a UK national (who settled in France before 31 December 2020) will continue to benefit from the status deriving from their family ties. This link will continue to be established in practice by the issuing of a permit that they will be obliged to request, as is already the case now.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Third-country nationals who are family members of a UK national (who is settled in France before 30 March 2019) will benefit from the status deriving from their family ties. This link will be established in practice by the issuing of a new permit under the standard system [“regime de droit commun”].
The French Ministry of the Interior have published a website to help UK nationals living and working in France (https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actual...pare-au-Brexit).
We have requested that the French authorities provide an official translation of their guidance, but our team have produced an informal, non-official version below. This section covers residence. We will translate the other sections shortly.
RESIDENCE
Will it be necessary for UK nationals to obtain a residence permit? What will be the steps to take to obtain a residence permit?
In the event of the Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
UK nationals present in France before 31 December 2020 will have to apply for the new permit provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement. They will have until at least July 2021 to make the request, according to procedures and a calendar which will be specified in due course.
UK nationals who arrive in France after 1 January 2021 will have to apply for a permit under the standard system [“un titre de droit commun” –i.e. non EU/EEA].
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
It will be necessary to apply for a residence permit after 29 March 2019 according to procedures that will be specified in due course.
What are the official criteria for UK nationals already in France who would like to apply for a residence permit?
In the event of the Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
The official criteria will be the same as those currently in place for the recognition of a right of residence for an EU national. UK nationals will have to demonstrate that they fall into one of the following categories:
- Either are exercising a professional activity (or have undertaken such an activity and be registered as a jobseeker);
- Or have sufficient resources for oneself and one's family as well as health insurance;
- Or are studying or undertaking vocational training and have health insurance;
- Or be a family member of a UK national living in France before 1 January 2021 and holding a right of residence (spouse, child, ancestor [in French ‘ascendant’], partner [in French ‘partenaire’, ‘concubin’] or dependent family member or forming part of the household of a British national).
UK nationals will be asked to demonstrate that they have resided in France before 30 March 2019 under one of the conditions for right of residence:
- exercising a professional activity;
- or having sufficient resources for oneself and one's family as well as health insurance;
- or are studying or undertaking vocational training and have health insurance;
- or be a family member of a UK national living in France before 30 March 2019 and holding the right to residence ;
Will residence permits obtained before March 2019 still be valid after the March deadline?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
EU residence permits obtained before March 2019 (possession of which is not obligatory) will continue to be valid during the transition period until 31 December 2020. However, beyond that period, they will have to be replaced by the new permits provided for in the [Withdrawal] Agreement. Applications for permits can be submitted according to a timetable which will be specified in due course and in any scenario you will have until at least July 2021 to do so.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Residence permits obtained before 30 March 2019 will have to be exchanged according to a schedule that will be specified in due course.
Is a UK national who has been issued a residence permit obliged to take steps to exchange it if he/she moves house?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force or without a Withdrawal Agreement
A UK national who has received a residence permit before 30 March 2019 will have to declare their change of address when applying for a new residence permit.
Will the residence permits issued in France allow mobility within the other countries of the European Union?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
Residence permits issued in France will allow travel in the other states forming part of the Schengen area for periods not exceeding three months. They will only allow residence in France.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Residence permits issued in France will allow travel in the other states forming part of the Schengen area for periods not exceeding three months. They will only allow residence in France.
Will UK nationals have to obtain a work permit in order to continue their professional activity in France?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
UK nationals who started their professional activity in France before 31 December 2020 will not need a work permit. Only those who have settled in France from 1 January 2021 will be subject to the requirement to apply for a work permit.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
UK nationals having started their professional activity in France before 29 March 2019 will not need a work permit. However, they will be required to apply for a residence permit. This permit will allow them to establish their right in practice. UK nationals arriving in France after 29 March 2019 or starting their professional activity after 29 March 2019 will have to obtain a work permit.
What are the criteria for issuing EU/EEA/Swiss citizen residence permits (first 5 years) for self-employed workers?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
A UK national exercising an independent professional activity before 31 December 2020 must prove by any means available the regular, real and lasting nature of his activity. The supporting documents to be provided are the same as those currently listed on the website www.service-public.gouv.fr for issuing a residence permit to EU citizens exercising a self-employed activity.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
A UK national exercising an independent professional activity must prove by any means available the regular, real and lasting nature of his activity in order to obtain a residence permit corresponding to his situation, according to procedures to be specified later.
Will family members (third-country nationals) of a UK national have a special status?
In the event of a Withdrawal Agreement entering into force
Third-country nationals who are family members of a UK national (who settled in France before 31 December 2020) will continue to benefit from the status deriving from their family ties. This link will continue to be established in practice by the issuing of a permit that they will be obliged to request, as is already the case now.
In case of absence of Withdrawal Agreement
Third-country nationals who are family members of a UK national (who is settled in France before 30 March 2019) will benefit from the status deriving from their family ties. This link will be established in practice by the issuing of a new permit under the standard system [“regime de droit commun”].
Dec 17th 2018, 8:57 am
#11
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Dépt 61
Posts: 5,254
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
"We have requested that the French authorities provide an official translation of their guidance,"
Is HMRC going to translate its own guidance into every EU language, then?
If so, let's hope it will do a better job than the recent translation it provided to the EU, that was dismissed as totally incomprehensible and everybody worked off the English version. And it doesn't seem to be any better at translating into English - "The supporting documents to be provided are the same as those currently listed on the website www.service-public.gouv.fr ' - there is no such web address, presumably it means www.service-public.fr ? Hard to believe it was wrong in the original...
Is HMRC going to translate its own guidance into every EU language, then?
If so, let's hope it will do a better job than the recent translation it provided to the EU, that was dismissed as totally incomprehensible and everybody worked off the English version. And it doesn't seem to be any better at translating into English - "The supporting documents to be provided are the same as those currently listed on the website www.service-public.gouv.fr ' - there is no such web address, presumably it means www.service-public.fr ? Hard to believe it was wrong in the original...
Last edited by EuroTrash; Dec 17th 2018 at 9:04 am.
Dec 17th 2018, 10:42 am
#12
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Re: UK nationals to keep rights in EU post Brexit
Independently of the Residence issue as per the official French site, no one has commented on the fact that British citizens who haven't got dual French nationality won't be eligible to vote in next year's European Elections (for French representatives, of course!), nor in the 2020 Municipales. And that elected British Conseillers Municipaux won't be eligible to stand again...
Do BE members feel strongly about this?
Do BE members feel strongly about this?
