hasen

Yes of course we both have bank statements like I said many times, but if they all need to be from a French bank account that is gonna be a problem.

christmasoompa

I was responding to your comments about UK immigration and people without 'normal' jobs being unable to sponsor a spouse. I was just pointing out that anybody self employed can apply for a UK spousal visa, as long as they meet the income threshold. Being a sole trader (or instagram model or whatever) doesn't preclude being able to apply for a UK spousal visa.

So if your preferred option is actually to move to the UK, and you earn enough, then do ask in the UK immi section of the forum where the forum pros will be able to help you with the requirements for self-employed income.

HTH.

EuroTrash

It's not simply a case of dosh in a bank account. You have got very hung up on this.
It's a case of proving your legal status in France. If you say you're living in France and working from home, ie self employed worker, you need to show you are earning your income through a registered French business structure, because that is French law. Depending on which particular French business structure you choose, because there are many, there will be certain fiscal requirements that you have to meet. One of which will probably be that you use a dedicated bank account for the business (basically, to make it easier for the French tax authorities to carry out their checks if they need to). But for instance, the first thing I would expect them to automatically ask for is your siret number. The second thing would be a valid certificate of healthcare rights. Without those two things, they won't get as far as asking for details of your business activity because without those two things they will not consider you a self employed worker. If you provide those two things, then they will simply want to confirm that it is a "genuine and effective economic activity" and not on "such a small scale as to be regarded as purely marginal and ancillary" (I think those are the phrases used in the EU Freedom of Movement Directive). Hence they will ask to see some kind of French business records appropriate to your business structure, that gives an indication of turnover. Showing a wodge of money in a random overseas bank account is not normally appropriate to French bookkeeping requirements.
If and when you set your business up, you would need to discuss with the tax office what would be an acceptable way of accounting for overseas income in your circumstances. Hopefully they can propose a way round this, I have no idea what they would consider acceptable and you won't know either until you ask. Maybe keeping detailed records of receipts that can be easily cross referenced to individual transactions and converted into euros, would be acceptable. But until or unless you have worked something out with the tax office, you would be expected to stick to the same rules as everyone else.

EuroTrash

To pick up on this, not sure if it's been answered yet.
You need to plan longer term if you intend staying in France,. There are two issues, first getting the spouse visa, and then getting her carte de séjour. To qualify for a spouse visa she simply has to be the spouse of a legal resident. She then has to obtain a carte de séjour within a certain period of arriving, and she will have to keep renewing this when it expires. The carte de séjour is conditional on showing she has done things like attend OFII's integration course, learned some French and kept her ducks in a row. Immigration don't forget about you once you're here, they keep tabs.
If she comes to France on a spouse visa and you divorce, then she has to leave France, simple as that. A spouse visa doesn't give a non EU spouse any personal rights at all, the only rights that person has are via their spouse.
There are various types of visa for non EU citizens and they all have different conditions for obtaining them and confer different rights. You seem to rolling them all into one. If she wants to apply for a visa to allow her to live in France in her own right, AFAIK she can, regardless of being your spouse (not sure on that, you'd need to check). But for a non EU citizen to get a visa to come and work in France, they normally need to be in a position to do far more than just support themselves, they need to show they will make a significant contribution to the France's economy or culture - usually, investing serious money in setting up a business that will provide employment, or bringing a unique talent or skill that France will benefit from. That's the big difference between having the right to freedom of movement, that simply requires you not become a burden, and not.having freedom of movement and having to convince France that it will actually benefit from your presence.

BritInParis

As the spouse of an EU/EEA citizen your wife can 'piggyback' on your freedom of movement rights. This gives you both the ability to stay in France for three months unqualified. By the end of the three months you will need to demonstrate you are exercising your Treaty rights, in this case self-employment. Your wife, as a non-EU/EEA citizen, is required under French regulations to obtain a carte de séjour before these three months are up. It is free of charge. She will need to provide a valid passport, evidence of her residential address, three passport photos, your marriage certificate and your evidence of your right to remain in France, e.g. British passport and evidence of self-employment. If you wish to go down the self-employment route then you will need to comply with the relevant French regulations.

What are exactly your motivations to move to France? Are you just fed-up with China? Would you prefer to go to the UK? If it's the latter then you may find dealing with British bureaucracy less difficult than dealing with French bureaucracy.

hasen

Ok well that is interesting to hear from someone who has been through the process. I was under the impression they would need more than just bank statements as proof of earnings. I don't use an accountant and thought they would also require tax returns and such as proof. So I take it you didn't go down the 60k savings proof route? I had a friend who did that by selling his house and got to the UK with his wife ok.

I did a search in the moving back to the UK section of the forum and found someone saying this "As you are applying under self employment category there is a lot more documentation to show other than payslips and bank statements." Looks like it's not so simple. I think the only option for me would be the 60k route. I remember reading all about it before and concluding that would be the only route for me.

hasen

​​​​​​​Ok that's useful information, thanks, I'm sure I can do that up since I can go there first and have time to set all this stuff up.

Ok but she only has three months though right? It's not really enough to build up any particular evidence within France, everything prior to that will be in China. And she won't be able to get the income to go directly into a French bank account anyway since they can't be linked to the Chinese payment systems. China also has limitations on money going out of China so it would make sense to only transfer the money actually needed. She has to prove her earnings and employment to obtain the carte de séjour and that way if she gets divorced after three months it's more safe since she's proven she can support herself in her own right.

Do you have any information about the requirement to invest in the French economy? Everyone living in France is contributing to the economy in some way since they are paying for rent, buying food etc etc. The application form doesn't say anything about this, just how will you support yourself. Although that's not the application for the carte de séjour itself I take it, it's the demande de visa pour un long séjour. I guess I need to see the application form for the carte de séjour itself.

EuroTrash

No, that's not how it works.
You have to be clear on what her status is going to be. A person can't swap from one status to another once they're in France.
Up to now you have been talking about bringing her here as your spouse. Therefore as has been said many many times she doesn't have to prove earnings. She applies for a carte de séjour vie privée et familiale and she can stay at home and have babies and not earn a cent. But she can't come in via the simplfied, no-cost procedure for spouses, and then apply for a carte de séjour passeport talent. If she enters France as your spouse, she is limited to being here as a spouse.
If she wants to apply for a long stay visa in her own right she has to make the application from China, pay the appropriate fee and wait for the visa to be issued before she comes to France. I don't know about China but in most countries the application process for long stay visas is quite lengthy and involves an interview with your local French consulate.
Likewise if she's here as a spouse and she gets divorced, she can't stay here and transfer to another visa. She has to go back to China and start a new application from scratch. Having been here previously as a spouse is unlikely to give her any significant advantage.

Google is your friend https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F16922
As you'll see it lists what basic documents are required according to category. For an investor the requirement is a minimum investment of 300 000€. There are other categories if she has high level skills to offer.

Yes, but that doesn't mean everyone is welcome to come and live in France pour en jouir avec les droits et prérogatives qui y sont attachés as they say (to enjoy all the rights and privileges appertaining thereto), simply on the basis that they will be buying food here. It's about controlling immigration. No country (AFAIK) opens its doors to everyone in the world who fancies going to live there, it wouldn't be sustainable and it wouldn't be good for the country or its nationals. They have to be selective.

hasen

She doesn't have to but it seems she can do if she wants to go that route. Like in the UK you can prove your ability to support yourself by income or by savings. Different people have different circumstances.

Isn't that the application form that I attached earlier? It's still a spouse visa but she can show her ability to support herself in answer to the question 29. It may take longer as you say but the most important thing is to get the visa.

Regarding divorce, that's just a risk thing. Like you say there are many foreigners living there in poverty which is a big problem for France - in an ideal world they should just go back to their country but it's not guaranteed. That's why there's less risk for someone who has proven they can support themselves in their own right from the beginning. Not sure if that's the way it works but I'd view a lot of non-eu wives with no job or earnings just sitting there attached to EU citizens living in France as a bit of a risk. 100% relying on the EU citizen's income to survive..

EuroTrash

OK. Here is a list of all the visas and associated cartes de séjours
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...vosdroits/N110
If you can find one designed to allow a non-EU citizen to come to France and work, in their own right rather than as a spouse of an EU national, and the only criterion for obtaining it is to prove they would be capable of earning enough to support themself and nothing more than that, do tell us which it is.

I think what you're still overlooking is that non EU citizens do not have an automatic right to come and work in the EU. If they have sufficient income to support themselves here without working, that's fine. Then they write the details of their pension or whatever in answer to question 29 and if it's considered sufficient they get a visa entitling them to some kind of a carte de séjour that allows them to live here self-supporting but not to work. But, to come to France and work, they either need to have been recruited to fill a job vacancy that the employer was unable to find a suitable EU candidate for, or they need to be able to offer some kind of special talent, skill or service. The immigration service will then study the application, interview the applicant and assess their merits. But it's not a formality, the bar is quite high and not every application is successful.

hasen

Not sure where you're seeing I said that? Wasn't that you who said that:

"Originally Posted by EuroTrash
If she wants to apply for a long stay visa in her own right she has to make the application from China, pay the appropriate fee and wait for the visa to be issued before she comes to France. I don't know about China but in most countries the application process for long stay visas is quite lengthy and involves an interview with your local French consulate."

What visa were you referring to if it was not spouse?

Is that not a spouse visa? You mean as a student or on a working visa?

EDIT: I see the long séjour is required to qualify for the carte de séjour. The carte de séjour would be Époux d'un étranger ayant un titre de séjour.

christmasoompa

As above, we're both Brits. But yes, you'd need more than bank statements, you don't need an accountant though. If you're self employed, then surely you still have accounts even if you do them yourself? And tax returns/info?

EuroTrash

Last post probably, because it's got beyond boring.
As said, many times. The carte de séjour vie privée and familiale is not a residence permit in her own right. It's issued on the basis of the your rights as her EU spouse and it would allow her, as your wife, to live and work in France. It's a simplified procedure, there's no interview and nothing to prove except that she is your wife and you are entitled to live here. But you now seem to be saying that that isn't good enough, she wants a different kind of visa in case you get divorced.
So having rejected the spouse route, which other kind of visa/carte de séjour does she intend to apply for?
For instance, passeport talent allows the holder to set up a small business, but by all accounts it's not an easy one to get.

hasen

Yes but when you live abroad your base of office changes so you're not liable to pay any tax to the UK. I have my own records of earnings that I do myself though.

hasen

You're using her because carte is a feminine word? That's interesting.

I never said she didn't want a spouse visa, again not sure where you're reading that. I said from the beginning I wanted a spouse visa and this: "I'm not sure how your wife's later application will be regarded if she intends her earnings to remain in China....." lead me to believe her earnings were important. It seems extremely strange that they wouldn't be important even on a spouse visa. So as long as I earn enough to live for myself that's also gonna be considered to be enough for two people? Also seems contrary to what DMU was saying about proving her earnings.

It doesn't seem to say anything about this here either https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/F2209 unless I'm missing something in the French. Well I hope you're right 'cos it kind of means as long as I'm in my wife has already got in too.