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Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of life ?

Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of life ?

Old Jul 22nd 2018, 9:55 am
  #1  
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Default Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of life ?

Hi,

I currently work in Munchen/Germany and contemplating the idea of moving to France/Toulouse !
I need to give a fast answer so maybe some of you can give some clues what to expect so that i can take a decision:
1. Salary wise i should expect > 3500 net / month :
- the usual question: enough ?
- our daughter is close to 4 years old: what are the costs of child care and how easy is it to access it ? can we find easy a place or we have to go for private solutions and how expensive is that ?
For example in Munich is very hard to find available place in day-care(kindergartenplatz) up to age of 6years;
- rent: i have the impression that in the range of 800-900EUR cold rent we could find something nice , 3 rooms apt.
Is this realistic ? Or should i be prepared to budget more for this expense? Also what"s with taxe d"habitacion ? Should i be prepared to pay it by myself and how much could it be? 1K per year ?
- i was always puzzled how to calculate real net salary: including health/pension but also taxes;
I am using this calculator ( 1 ) to calculate the 1st net and then take this number and put it into this calculator ( 2 ) to get the taxes due and therefor have a grip about the real 2nd net that actually i see yearly in my pocket. Is this correct or am i doing it wrong?
2. City safety: Munchen is quite safe, green and nice. What about Toulouse ?
3. Healthcare and access to doctors: what i find annoying to Munchen is that they simply have too few doctors.
Appointments needs to be done months in advance and even emergencies(light ones like dental/ENT/flue/some pain/headaches/dermatology etc.) are treated lightly are more or less ignored up to a certain point. I call this access to doctors.
How is the situation in Toulouse ? Is it easy to go with preventive/regular checks or everything is so crowded that unless you have a big problem you will not manage to see a doctor.
4. French language: i already have a basic vocabulary, like B1, but the usual words describing day activities and not the formal bureaucratic type. Is this enough to go by ?

What else should i be aware about ? Additional expenses ?
Thank you for getting to this point with reading my post and if you are kind to give me a fast your experience would be really great!
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Old Jul 23rd 2018, 5:54 am
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Firstly you may wish to bear in mind that making a rapid decision on something as important as a career challenge which involves a change of country for a family and young child, can often end in remorse. We often advise here, to plan carefully. And then plan some more!
Currently in Munich and wishing to move to Toulouse, I guess you are in the aircraft industry. I have spent time - sounds like a prison sentence - in the industry in both places, also in Bremen, Hamburg and Hannover, and loved all locations.
I'm now a little out of touch regarding salaries in Toulouse, which I'll leave for others to answer. Taking some of your other points:
- Property rental prices. 800-900 euros still sounds realistic for a 3 room apartment (T4), in somewhere like Colomiers or even Blagnac. Obviously more for down-town Toulouse.
- Taxe d'habitation. Whether you are the owner or renting a property, you will be subject to paying this annual residence tax if you are resident from 1st Jan each year.
- City safety. Toulouse is generally pretty safe, although there are certain areas which are definite no-go zones, especially after dusk.
- Healthcare/access to doctors in Toulouse. Should be no problem whatsoever. Regarding Munich, I recently spent some time visiting a colleague in Halbergmoos who works with EuroJet Turbo, and he gave no indication that doctors/healthcare etc was any different to Toulouse - where he also spent several years with his family.
- Language. Not unlike Munich, Toulouse is very cosmopolitan. With basic French vocabulary you will have no problems, especially in the workforce where English is the common language.
Repeat advise. Don't rush into this! If it were me I'd definitely remain in Munich - a great place to live and workl! Very clean, and very organised - as one would expect in Bavaria. I returned to Toulouse/Airbus 13 years ago. Down town the city was a mess, with planning and initial work for pedestrian areas and metro extension. Imho the roadwork chaos around the centre is now worse than ever. Couldn't happen in Germany, at least for that amount of time.

Last edited by Tweedpipe; Jul 23rd 2018 at 6:08 am.
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Old Jul 23rd 2018, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Originally Posted by moridichiu
Hi,

I currently work in Munchen/Germany and contemplating the idea of moving to France/Toulouse !
I need to give a fast answer so maybe some of you can give some clues what to expect so that i can take a decision:
1. Salary wise i should expect > 3500 net / month :
- the usual question: enough ?
- our daughter is close to 4 years old: what are the costs of child care and how easy is it to access it ? can we find easy a place or we have to go for private solutions and how expensive is that ?
For example in Munich is very hard to find available place in day-care(kindergartenplatz) up to age of 6years;
- rent: i have the impression that in the range of 800-900EUR cold rent we could find something nice , 3 rooms apt.
Is this realistic ? Or should i be prepared to budget more for this expense? Also what"s with taxe d"habitacion ? Should i be prepared to pay it by myself and how much could it be? 1K per year ?
- i was always puzzled how to calculate real net salary: including health/pension but also taxes;
I am using this calculator ( 1 ) to calculate the 1st net and then take this number and put it into this calculator ( 2 ) to get the taxes due and therefor have a grip about the real 2nd net that actually i see yearly in my pocket. Is this correct or am i doing it wrong?
2. City safety: Munchen is quite safe, green and nice. What about Toulouse ?
3. Healthcare and access to doctors: what i find annoying to Munchen is that they simply have too few doctors.
Appointments needs to be done months in advance and even emergencies(light ones like dental/ENT/flue/some pain/headaches/dermatology etc.) are treated lightly are more or less ignored up to a certain point. I call this access to doctors.
How is the situation in Toulouse ? Is it easy to go with preventive/regular checks or everything is so crowded that unless you have a big problem you will not manage to see a doctor.
4. French language: i already have a basic vocabulary, like B1, but the usual words describing day activities and not the formal bureaucratic type. Is this enough to go by ?

What else should i be aware about ? Additional expenses ?
Thank you for getting to this point with reading my post and if you are kind to give me a fast your experience would be really great!
As far as your child is concerned, there would be no problem getting her into State Maternelle (free) - the Mairie of your domicile will allocate her to the nearest one. By the time she goes up to Primaire at 6, she'll be fluent in French (at her level) and will learn to read and write à la française. If you are both working, there's a "Garderie" at the Maternelle before and after school hours, and all-day "Centres Aérés" on Wednesdays run by the Municipality.
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Old Jul 28th 2018, 3:15 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Thanks for your replies.
Could somebody help me how to calculate the net salary?
I am using a normal calculator online (i cannot paste the link here for i am not allowed to do so on this site now) to derive the "Salaire annuel net" : cca. 23% of the brut. It does not take into account the family situation.
Then i go to the official website impots.gouv and here i write in the net income calculated above and my family situation: this results in a number that i will subtract from above net to get the real net, right ?
So after paying the impot is there something else to pay ? Or can i rely on this net?
I am surprised that family situation makes such a big difference: is Germany you have some tax advantages being married but up to a certain extent(is capped) and children makes no difference for tax allowances.
Also : cam someone explain what"s the difference from cadre or non-cadre? Is up to the employee to pick one ?
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Old Jul 28th 2018, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Originally Posted by moridichiu
Thanks for your replies.
Could somebody help me how to calculate the net salary?
I am using a normal calculator online (i cannot paste the link here for i am not allowed to do so on this site now) to derive the "Salaire annuel net" : cca. 23% of the brut. It does not take into account the family situation.
Then i go to the official website impots.gouv and here i write in the net income calculated above and my family situation: this results in a number that i will subtract from above net to get the real net, right ?
So after paying the impot is there something else to pay ? Or can i rely on this net?
I am surprised that family situation makes such a big difference: is Germany you have some tax advantages being married but up to a certain extent(is capped) and children makes no difference for tax allowances.
Also : cam someone explain what"s the difference from cadre or non-cadre? Is up to the employee to pick one ?
I'd be amazed if that were to be correct. Try putting your gross salary into the .gouv calculator.
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Old Jul 28th 2018, 3:58 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Originally Posted by moridichiu
Thanks for your replies.
Could somebody help me how to calculate the net salary?
I am using a normal calculator online (i cannot paste the link here for i am not allowed to do so on this site now) to derive the "Salaire annuel net" : cca. 23% of the brut. It does not take into account the family situation.
Then i go to the official website impots.gouv and here i write in the net income calculated above and my family situation: this results in a number that i will subtract from above net to get the real net, right ?
So after paying the impot is there something else to pay ? Or can i rely on this net?
I am surprised that family situation makes such a big difference: is Germany you have some tax advantages being married but up to a certain extent(is capped) and children makes no difference for tax allowances.
Also : cam someone explain what"s the difference from cadre or non-cadre? Is up to the employee to pick one ?
Some one will come along with the percentage of côtisations which will be deducted from your gross salary (for healthcare insurance, pension(s), unemployment benefits, family allowances, etc...). The PAYE system is being inaugurated next year, which means that your employer will then deduct income tax from your salary. I don't know how the employer will go about taking the employee's tax perks (number of children, etc...) into account.
It's the employer who decides on the cadre status. You have to be diploma'd, usually with work experience. When I started working in France, I was a lowly employee and, after a few years, my Department Head requested the boss to change my status to cadre. I certainly wasn't an executive or manager, I was doing exactly the same work as before, but with more responsibilty for getting urgent work done on time. I remained a cadre when I set up my own company to work for myself (compulsory, since, on paper, I was the manager). My deducted côtisations for the Cadre Pensions over the years hurt at the time, but I'm reaping the benefits now!
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Old Jul 28th 2018, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

So ... what's the answer : you get the brut that is being deducted with cca. 23% standing for different social contributions at the source and to calculate the real net, after impot, you need to place as income the brut-23% or the brut?
Nevermind PAYE that is trying to retain taxes at the source.. . Germany does since a long time without any difficulties regarding your family status.
Also i still not get it what's with the cadre ? Ok. ..you were made cadre but what were your advantages? Why would you want to be cadre ?
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Old Jul 28th 2018, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Originally Posted by moridichiu
So ... what's the answer : you get the brut that is being deducted with cca. 23% standing for different social contributions at the source and to calculate the real net, after impot, you need to place as income the brut-23% or the brut?
Nevermind PAYE that is trying to retain taxes at the source.. . Germany does since a long time without any difficulties regarding your family status.
Also i still not get it what's with the cadre ? Ok. ..you were made cadre but what were your advantages? Why would you want to be cadre ?
Prestige and a higher salary than my colleagues!
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Old Jul 30th 2018, 11:18 am
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

The cadre vs non-cadre decision is a big one in France.
As DMU says, on the one side is more money, greater kudos and career prospects - there is a limit to how far up the ladder you can get as a salarié. On the other side is, as cadre you're expected to show more commitment to the company, potentially at the expense of your personal life; I believe I'm right in saying that as cadre you're basically employed to fulfil a function within the company and assure certain outcomes, rather than to work X hours per week, as salariés are. So in effect you no longer (in theory) have a fixed upper limit on the number of hours you can be expected to work over a given period. (I say "in theory" because in practice, many employees do work longer hours than they should without fussing about it, simply to keep the goodwill of their employers.)
So, often when a salarié is offered a cadre contract it can prompt a long and searching debate with the spouse over their priorities as a couple, because it is going to have an impact on family life/quality time/work-life balance etc.
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Old Jul 30th 2018, 12:15 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
The cadre vs non-cadre decision is a big one in France.
As DMU says, on the one side is more money, greater kudos and career prospects - there is a limit to how far up the ladder you can get as a salarié. On the other side is, as cadre you're expected to show more commitment to the company, potentially at the expense of your personal life; I believe I'm right in saying that as cadre you're basically employed to fulfil a function within the company and assure certain outcomes, rather than to work X hours per week, as salariés are. So in effect you no longer (in theory) have a fixed upper limit on the number of hours you can be expected to work over a given period. (I say "in theory" because in practice, many employees do work longer hours than they should without fussing about it, simply to keep the goodwill of their employers.)
So, often when a salarié is offered a cadre contract it can prompt a long and searching debate with the spouse over their priorities as a couple, because it is going to have an impact on family life/quality time/work-life balance etc.

I wasn't married when I worked with the company, so no family life to consider. But the work commitments were even greater when I left them to set myself up (refusal of work = loss of a client) which became complicated when I got married and the children started to arrive. OH was boss in his law-firm and in addition a workaholic, so the work/life balance was often "delicate" in our household!
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Old Aug 19th 2018, 10:22 am
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

Been there and now I understand better the differences .
Indeed ... compared to Munchen, Toulouse is a jungle.
Is not the street travaux that striked me but the small sidewalks, old with new buildings style mixture close together, glass close to 1900th un-renovated abandoned house stuff. Not sure I would even want to live in the city now.
I am surprised why do people quote it as a safe city: I was walking close to Basilique Saint-Sernin at 20:00-21:00 and at the beginning of one street there was a guy and at its end there was another like they were owning the street. First guy asked me something but i ignored him. My guess is that it was drug related.
Next day i used a bike to check the inner city: Arenes / Saint Cyprien / Pont des Demoiselles / St - Agne : just few scattered green areas / parcs , no small playgrounds for kids, no bicycle lanes , full of traffic and small streets with either small houses either large grey blocks but same as in Italy: windows covered with bars at lower levels. That is saying something.
So yeap ... i realize now better the differences.
Did not have time to go in the suburbs but hope there is the residential area i am looking for .

Ok .. that"s it for now. I must admit i am disappointed at a first glance but i am also having munchen/bavaria as base for comparison.
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Old Aug 20th 2018, 12:46 pm
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Default Re: Toulouse for family with 1 small child : safety, access to doctors, quality of li

My experience of ex-pats in Toulouse is that if you love Germany then you may not "love" France... especially if you are actually German.
Toulouse city center started out as a medieval walled city, so obviously space inside the "walls" was at a premium and not much was given over to parks. Although, le parc grand rond, jardin des plantes and jardin royal are in the city and are fabulous parks with all kinds of activities for kids...as well as the natural history museum. Not quite sure why you didn't manage to find them on a map?
Just outside the old city center, on the riverside, there are some lovely places. Can't believe you missed the park in St Cyprien right next to Les Abattoirs -it's fantastic for kids and a great place for a picnic next to the river. There's also the Prairie des filtres ???
The really big park for Toulouse is La Ramee.
Those "abandoned' houses in the city center - mostly open out onto inner courtyards and the apartments in there can be fantastic. Just look on leboncoin for examples.
Honestly though, you should probably stay in Tournefeuille
I know it's stating the obvious, but Toulouse is not Munich and France is not Germany. Try to embrace the differences.
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