Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hello,

I was not sure how to word the title so my apologies if it sounds off.

How long do you have to wait in order for a will to be read .

A relative past away toward the back end of November last year , so it has been 4 and a half months.

I do not trust his wife , all she say´s is the will is not read yet.

My uncle told my father ( who has also past away ) that he had amended his will to include use.

We have practically no contact with them. How do i know they are on the level.

I really would appreciate someone that understands this.

Thanks.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hi, just to be clear, do you mean a French "Testament" concerning French Property?

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Contrary to popular belief, there is no formal or legal requirement for a (public) "reading of the will", unless the defunct specified such in the will, or in instructions to the Notaire. This applies to both the UK & France, btw; & other countries too.

If the will was made in France, it will be handled by a notaire, who is obliged to contact & notify beneficiaries by law, and who is required to do so in a timely fashion.
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/F3167

If it's a UK will, you might be able to get a copy here:
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hello Shirtback,

The will was made in France (i think) but am not sure . My uncle has lived in France for the past 40 years but was born in Italy with businesses in Africa ( not sure on this either).

I do not speak any of these languages and my uncles family are either French or Italian speaking.

- How would we know that he gave ( or not ) instructions for a will reading by the Notaire ?

- I do not know if the notaire has contacted my aunt or has !

I take it the that the (depository) is the person who made the will but the depository has past away ? or am i missing something ?

What about ( in case of refusal ) , i.e. my aunt does not want the will to be disclosed , read out ?

How could we get a copy of this supposed will ?

Please excuse my extreme ignorance of legalities here.

Many thanks for helping.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Where does that quote come from?

No, the depository is not the defunct. In your case it's probably/possibly the notaire.

Your aunt can not refuse the terms of the will being disclosed to a *beneficiary* (you, if your uncle named you - I.e. Left you something in his will).

Quick questions:
-were your aunt & uncle legally married?
-do they, or does (did) your uncle, have children?
-do you have your uncle's address?
-did your uncle/does your aunt have your address?

To be honest, if you haven't already heard from the notaire concerning your uncle's will, it's probable you were not mentioned (a beneficiary).

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Your aunt can not refuse disclosure of the will to you, *if* you are a named beneficiary.

If you are not a beneficiary, then you would have to spend some money & apply to the courts, with no guarantee of success, to see the will.

Is it worth it? Other than what your father may have mentioned to you, do you have any reason why you think you might/should inherit something from your uncle?

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but French inheritance laws are quite strict, & it would be difficult for your aunt to circumvent them.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hello again Shirtback,

The (quote) is from the link you posted :

https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/F3167

Translated by Google.

Answers to your questions :

My father told me one day that my uncle would amend his will to include us.

My aunt emailed me a few weeks back , this is a segment of it (in Italian) . Actually, she´s Portuguese but living in France for a long time :

Google translate :

From this i think she´s saying that the will has not been opened ( read ) yet ?

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hi, from my limited Italian, "fata" simply means "done".
Since your uncle had a "recomposed" family, I'm not surprised that the Succession hasn't been completed yet. Several months is usual in France, even for a "normal" family....
If your aunt-by-marriage is coy on the subject and you're on good terms with your blood cousins, they should be able to give you the Notaire's name and address, and you can enquire directly. As stated, French Property and Succession Laws are very different from the UK and a recomposed family complicates matters.....

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

It doesn't matter whether you are in contact with your relatives or whether or not you trust them, because everything will be dealt with by a notaire. Relatives have no control over distributing the estate, it's a complex matter and it has to be handled by somebody who is qualified to do it. Inheritance in France is largely determined by law, not by the deceased's wishes. Individuals have limited discretion on who they can name as their heirs. The notaire will do everything in accordance with French law and will respect the provisions of the will as long as is no conflict between the will and the law; if there is any conflict, the law will take precedence. As long as the deceased left a will with the notaire, all any of the heirs - you, your aunt, anybody else named in the will - can do, is sit back and wait until the notaire has completed his work and contacted each of you. Either way, que sera, sera. Your aunt can't change anything and you can't change anything, the wheels of French succession law are slow but mighty and unstoppable.
I suggest you ask your aunt for the contact details of the notaire who's dealing with it - she will know - and get in touch with him/her to see if they'll tell you anything. If they refuse it may mean you are not named in the will or it may simply mean they expect you to wait to be formally notified.
Be aware that as a nephew you will have to pay 55% inheritance tax to the French government on any French legacy over approx 8000€ that has been left to you.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

EuroTrash - :goodpost:

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

:goodpost: to both Dmu & Eurotrash. They said more or less what I was coming back to say.

I'll add/emphasise that if you are a named beneficiary, you'll be contacted. Whether auntie agrees or not.

Using my (very) limited reading of Italian, I'd say that the text you posted says something on the lines of "the succession is not done (complete/resolved)"; I don't see how it could be read that "the will has not been read".

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Don't worry TreeSurgery, French law takes it for granted that relatives will automatically try to rob each other blind when it comes to inheritance, given half a chance - so the law is designed to make sure that they don't get half a chance. If you're named in the will, your rights will be protected.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Many thanks for the information here.

Does this mean that should i receive 10000 euros ( would this sum already have been taxed by the French ) or not ?

Thanks again.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

If you receive 10,000€, as a nephew you'll pay probably just over 1,000 tax, so you'll end up with nearly 9k.
The estate as a whole is not taxed before it's distributed. Each beneficiary pays their own tax on the amount they inherit. The closer the relationship to the deceased, the less tax you pay. It's all very different to how it works in the UK.
The notaire will probably need to see copies of your's and your father's birth certificates to prove the kinship.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

I live in another European country, so would the estate be taxed according to the law of the residing country ?

What if i was left property in France, would that also be taxed ( if it were to be sold ) ?

Thanks again , and please excuse the curiosity (questions).

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Hi, in case ET isn't around to answer, the "Taxe de Succession" that must be paid on an inheritance, is levied on French property, cash, assets, etc... and payable to the French Government, wherever the named heirs live. (If your uncle specified in his Will that UK law must prevail, his property, etc... outside of France isn't concerned by French Inheritance Law, only French property).
In my (limited) experience, the Notaire deducts what's due to the Tax Office from the value of the bequests and the heirs receive the net amounts.
The Sales Tax is nothing to do with Inheritance Tax and it's the buyer who pays this, not the vendor.
Hope this clarifies a little! If you can't get hold of the Notaire's details and contact him/her to give your details "in case you're named in the Will and aren't sure that your uncle gave the current address" (a reasonable pretext for writing), you can only play the waiting game. My former neighbour's UK heirs had to wait nearly 4 months for the Succession to be completed and hers was straightforward....

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

I think dmu's answered it pretty much. All fixed assets in France, ie houses, come under French succession law regardless of where the deceased or the heirs live, likewise any cash in a French bank account belonging to a French resident.
To clarify about the property though - if you inherit property, inheritance tax is payable on the value of the property, as per the usual rules (ie if the property is valued at 10k you as a nephew would have to pay around 1k inheritance tax). This can be a problem if you want to sell, because property in France can take a long time to sell and the inheritance tax has to be paid within a fairly short timescale (not sure if it's 6 months or a year). So being left property/a share in a property, but no cash to pay the tax with, can be a very mixed blessing. If it comes to it you can ask to pay the tax in instalments or delay payment, but you would be charged interest.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Absolutely scandalous, is what my reaction is here. I would not have the ability to pay tax on property , let alone , in instalments .

This is legal robbery. Makes you wonder why some individuals (presumably) , try to evade or set up other , so called ´companies´ in tax havens to try and lessen the blow of Government greed.

This post has been an eye opener for me.

Many, many thanks again for this invaluable information.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

In France, it is not just the super wealthy who pay but ordinary citizens who cannot set up offshore accounts or use tax havens.
If and when you have some figures and if you are unable to pay any tax due then you can give up your right to the inheritance.
Remember, if you inherit €10k and are required to pay €1k then your gain is €9k.
In France, you have to declare your world-wide assets in your tax return.
Hope it all works our for you.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

It's a question of months. My above-mentioned former neighbour, before she died, inherited her companion's house and money. She had the choice of accepting to pay the 60% Taxe de Succession (as an unrelated heir) or waiving the inheritance. She chose to take the risk of not selling the house before the deadline for the Tax and by miracle she did manage to sell it. As a widow on a tiny Pension, she would have been in a real pickle had a buyer not come along at the right time, as the money that she inherited wasn't enough to pay the Tax.
@ the OP: I did say that things are different in France!
It's worth mentioning here that this Inheritance Tax is an incentive for "partners" to get married or "pacséd" (civil union), to avoid this horrendous percentage for the surviving partner.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

The thing is that the ethos in France is for inheritance to pass down the family in a direct line - the 'Napoleonic code'. If you inherit from your parents I believe you have a tax free allowance of 100,000€ from each parent, after which the tax starts at a very low rate. So sons and daughters who get a substantial inheritance can pay significantly less tax in France than in for instance the UK. It's when the heirs are outside the direct line or even worse, no relation at all, that the tax is high. For non relatives (including an unofficial partner that you live with - so if your uncle and his partner weren't legally joined, your aunt could be in for a big shock) I think it's 60 per cent tax with a tax free allowance of 2,000 or so. So in practice, the French rarely bequeath much to non-relatives. To the French this is all quite normal, they're used to the concept that you leave your possessions to your children, and in fact probably not a lot of succession tax is paid overall. It's only if you're used to a different system where you have more freedom over who you leave things to, that it comes as a shock.
Another side of the coin of course is that in France, children are legally responsible for looking after their parents in their old age - if the parents can't afford to pay for their own care, the bills are automatically sent to the kids, and they have to pay even if it means tightening their own belts. It wouldn't be very fair if after paying the old folks' care bills, the sons and daughters discovered the house had been left to a favourite niece or nephew who hadn't paid a penny towards the care bills and they got naff all.
It's a different culture, historically the family bloodline has been very very important and the laws still reflect that, and in a way keep the tradition alive; couples who live together either get married or pacs'd, kids and parents look after each other, etc.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

posts crossed, and yours is much more complete!:goodpost:
I hope the OP's uncle was advised by a Notaire as to the best way of protecting his "wife" if they werent married or pacséd, but that's hardly his concern.
P.S. Are you sure about a nephew's percentage? I found that brothers and sisters have to pay either 35 or 45%, which means that a nephew would have to pay 55%....

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

P.S. to #16
My neighbour's children didn't have any Taxe de Succession to pay, since the value of her property was less than their combined direct descendants' allowances, and the Notaire deducted his fees from her Bank Balance before releasing her money.
Another general point which occurred to me: a deceased person's bank accounts are frozen, so it's highly recommended for a couple to have a joint account with either signature valid, otherwise the surviving spouse will have problems for day-to-day living.

Re: Testament - need to know reading date ?
 

Me again, you're right with your calculation. I forgot about the allowance...:o