A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
Apr 20th 2009, 1:05 pm
#1
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A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
I have a really boring question on tax for those who are self-employed here in France. My accountant charges 100 euros/hour so I could ask, but unlike the UK accountants I don't think they're generous enough to give too many freebie bits of advice. 
For some reason an additional 25% of your annual profit has to be added to your total profit unless you are using a "Centre de Gestion Agréé" - and as I'm not using a CGA, for reasons I don't understand the State likes you to pay more tax! It feels like a double-edged sword, because I'm sure if I approached a CGA it would cost me a hell of a lot more, so I'd imagine I'd either be paying them the extra for the 25% reduction (probably not worth it when making a small profit), or you pay the State more in taxes! From what I understand it does not affect social contributions however.
Anybody have any advice on such matters? Do you use a CGA or simply opt to pay more tax?
For some reason an additional 25% of your annual profit has to be added to your total profit unless you are using a "Centre de Gestion Agréé" - and as I'm not using a CGA, for reasons I don't understand the State likes you to pay more tax! It feels like a double-edged sword, because I'm sure if I approached a CGA it would cost me a hell of a lot more, so I'd imagine I'd either be paying them the extra for the 25% reduction (probably not worth it when making a small profit), or you pay the State more in taxes! From what I understand it does not affect social contributions however.
Anybody have any advice on such matters? Do you use a CGA or simply opt to pay more tax?
Apr 20th 2009, 1:21 pm
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Re: A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
Having done some more research it seems the 25% is added purely on the assumption that the trader either is keeping slightly inaccurate records, or is fiddling the books! The CGA is there to liase with your accountant, so that the State can be more confident that your records are accurate and hence knock that 25% expense back off it!
What sort of impetuous is that for people to keep accurate and honest records! If they assume we are incapable of keeping accurate accounts or are cheating the system it's enough to make a person feel justified in actually doing so. France has some strange bureaucracy. :curse:
What sort of impetuous is that for people to keep accurate and honest records! If they assume we are incapable of keeping accurate accounts or are cheating the system it's enough to make a person feel justified in actually doing so. France has some strange bureaucracy. :curse:
Apr 20th 2009, 4:20 pm
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Re: A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
Having done some more research it seems the 25% is added purely on the assumption that the trader either is keeping slightly inaccurate records, or is fiddling the books! The CGA is there to liase with your accountant, so that the State can be more confident that your records are accurate and hence knock that 25% expense back off it!
What sort of impetuous is that for people to keep accurate and honest records! If they assume we are incapable of keeping accurate accounts or are cheating the system it's enough to make a person feel justified in actually doing so. France has some strange bureaucracy. :curse:
What sort of impetuous is that for people to keep accurate and honest records! If they assume we are incapable of keeping accurate accounts or are cheating the system it's enough to make a person feel justified in actually doing so. France has some strange bureaucracy. :curse:
I ate loads of grapes in the super market today.
Apr 20th 2009, 9:33 pm
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Re: A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
The CGA were good in the past but nowadays aren't really of much use. At one time if you were given a 20% discount on your tax but this doens't exist anymore. Now you pay tax on all of what you earned. If you're not with a CGA then you pay 125% on what you have earned, and there fore you'll find yourself in a higher taxe band......
It would really be your accountant you should advise you on wether its worth it or not....although I would usually say that it is worth it. Mine costs me 100€/year, but I've been told its cheap as its usually about 200 or 300€. It depends in what region of France you live in.
Apr 21st 2009, 7:15 am
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Re: A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
LOL!
The CGA were good in the past but nowadays aren't really of much use. At one time if you were given a 20% discount on your tax but this doens't exist anymore. Now you pay tax on all of what you earned. If you're not with a CGA then you pay 125% on what you have earned, and there fore you'll find yourself in a higher taxe band......
It would really be your accountant you should advise you on wether its worth it or not....although I would usually say that it is worth it. Mine costs me 100€/year, but I've been told its cheap as its usually about 200 or 300€. It depends in what region of France you live in.
The CGA were good in the past but nowadays aren't really of much use. At one time if you were given a 20% discount on your tax but this doens't exist anymore. Now you pay tax on all of what you earned. If you're not with a CGA then you pay 125% on what you have earned, and there fore you'll find yourself in a higher taxe band......
It would really be your accountant you should advise you on wether its worth it or not....although I would usually say that it is worth it. Mine costs me 100€/year, but I've been told its cheap as its usually about 200 or 300€. It depends in what region of France you live in.
Seems foolish not to be a member if it saves 25% over what they'd make you pay anyway (no doubt in Paris they'll charge 300 euros or something daft). My wonderful accountant never bothers to tell me anything and doesn't go out of his way to help much at all. Despite paying a fortune for tax and advice when I started he did not tell me about the CGA or that I'd pay more tax if I didn't join, nor has he tried to help me save money by adding such things as using part of the home as an office to my expenses. I would have added it myself, but don't know the rules. I'm changing accountants next year!!
One other quick question, which I don't know if anybody has the answer to. I have an RSI form to fill in about my income. My accountant has told me to enter the profit as 125%, but I read somewhere that social contributions are not based on this 125% markup, but at the actual rate of profit.
Such matters make my head spin and I don't know much about these things, especially as this is all completely new to me. Ordinarily I would trust in the abilities of an accountant, but at the moment I think it's going to pay to double check everything. If nobody knows, I'll try giving them a call.
I haven't even been sent my 2031/ 2003 tax forms in the post - I didn't even know of its existence until the other day, until I discovered I should have one and that the deadline is the 5th May. Seems I'm learning the hard way.
Apr 21st 2009, 11:34 am
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Re: A taxing question - Centre de Gestion Agréé
Okay, seems I've got to the bottom of it. I was registered as a réel simplifié which didn't mean much to me at the time, but I should have been under the BIC tax regime so I don't have to fanny about with this extra 25% business. Seems like it might be easy to switch from one to the other so I don't have to increase my profits by 25% for the purposes of paying tax. Phew! 
