Herman

I sent my 2008 tax return to the French tax office on 20 May (I noted it on the copy of my form when I sent it), well before the end of May deadline. Since then I have received no word and a colleague told me I have until 15 September to pay my 2008 tax bill. So I (well, he, my French is not good enough) called the tax office to find out what's going on. They say that since I did not file my tax return until 24 August I will not receive my tax bill until October and will have to pay, along with late filing penalties, in mid November. They were simply not interested in my assertion that I sent the tax return to them in May and told me I had to prove it or pay the late filing penalties. Huh? Anyone else come across this crap? I cannot prove it as I sent it in the normal post, not registered. Stupid in hindsight but if the penalties are 10% as my colleague told me, then I'm looking at a 1,000 euro fine for nothing. This is my first experience with the French tax office. Any advice?

Courgette

Hello Herman,

I'm sorry to hear you've got this problem. Your colleague is right, the majoration does start at 10%, and you need to start sorting this out ASAP.

If you can't easily get to your local Impôts office in person to discuss it with a conseiller, write them a letter explaining the problem. At La Poste, send it avec avis de reception, that way you get a receipt back in your own letterbox, and that is your proof that they have received it. It will cost you just over 4 euros, but it's worth it.

Remember that if your Impôts and Trésorerie are separate (ours are), it's the Impôts you want at this point, not the Trésorerie.

Bon courage.

Roger O

Next time round it will pay to do the return online. you get an automatic password, file number and automated electronic certificate back after submission, which you can either print and file or save to hard disc (or both). We have been doing this now for some years and it works. Bonus is that tax return deadlines are also later than if you send the printed forms by post - and it all costs you nothing.
http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi...d=home&sfid=00

wetwang

A bit worrying this thread.
I received a letter from CPAM the health insurance peiople asking to prove I was earning money in 2008 or they would cancel my Carte Vitale. Amongst other bits of paperwork they wanted my Avis D'imposition by Sept 15th.
As I hadn't received it yet I trotted of to the tax office where I handed it in in May.They had a problem finding it then said it would not be ready until October. They gave me a temporary letter which they said would satisfy CPAM.
This posting makes me think my original form is now in the late pile somewhere with an impending late payment due.

dmu

The 10% fine is applicable to what you owe in taxes, not the income that you declare.
This is a terrible time of year for taxes, at the best of times: 3ème tiers for les Impôts, Taxe Foncière next month, Taxe d'Habitation in November, fingers crossed that your fine won't be as bad as you think. Btw, you still have to pay it and you'll get reimbursed afterwards if you convince M. l'Inspecteur that you declared within the deadline.
Good luck!

Roger O

You can arrange a standing order to have it direct-debited monthly (we do) which is less painful - obviously provided you have a suitable bank account in France. However, you need to let the tax office know in good time well before you receive the normal yearly bill. This can be done at the tax office (or tresorie if yours is one of the "merged" ones). They calculate the total for the year and divide into 12 monthly payments. You get a pre-statement to that effect so you are informed in advance as to the monthly debit amounts.

You may even be able to do it online at the time of your tax declaration submission - but I'm not sure as ours has been running automatically for at least 8 years now and was originally done "manually" in Antibes tax office before we moved in 2003.

Herman

Thanks everyone for the replies. The tax return was actually prepared for me by an accountancy firm who sent me the printed forms to sign and submit. So I don't think electronic submission is an option. I spoke to the accountant and he has put in an appeal against the potential penalty (1,000 euro is 10% of the tax bill) and has vowed to fight it all the way for me. He also mentioned that I sent him an email on 26 May telling him I had posted the return to the tax office, so he will use this in his arguments. Hope they do the decent thing and stop trying to charge others for their mistakes.

In the meantime, this weekend the UK tax office sent me a request for a NRL1 (non resident landlord form) so that the property agent managing our UK property does not need to withhold tax on it. I have submitted this form twice already and this the fifth time they have requested one in 12 months. Maybe I should just send them photocopies of the tax exemption certificates they sent my property agent the first time I applied, oh I dont know, monthly might suffice.

The moral being these tax offices are as utterly incompetent as each other.

Roger O

Our experience - having lived, worked and (me) retired in France all during 15 years - is that if one is 100% within the French system with no non-French taxable assets (that they are aware of - which is not to be construed as a statement that we possess any!), the processes are relatively straightforward.

I talk from the position of 2 salaried employees of large international companies, man (meanwhile retired on a UK/Swiss/French pension combination) and wife (still employed for approximately a further 8 years), with no other French potentially-tax-liable income (except for things like normal bank savings accounts).

In our case, the "machine" is straightforward and surprisingly well oiled.

G-J-B

Hi Dave, that sounds pretty harsh, I think you're beginning to understand French bureaucracy the hard way. In hindsight, registered post would have been the way to go. I know I don't trust the authorities to get things right.
I delivered my tax return by hand - I should probably have photographed myself handing it over too! I worked 6 months of last year in France and didn't make enough to pay any tax; I've yet to decide if that's a good or bad thing!

Herman

Tax office is still insisting I must provide evidence that I posted it in May, which I cannot do other than the email I sent my accountant telling him I had just posted it. My accountant has asked the tax office to produce the evidence to us that they received it in August and in particular to send him the original envelope that I posted it in so that we can see the date the post office stamped it. They said they will look into it and get back to us. I can almost hear that envelope being torn up from where I sit.

G-J-B

Whenever I pay URSSAF or RSI I always scan the cheque, and envelope and ask the post office to clearly put the stamp with the date on it, but I guess if they conveniently lost the envelope, I'm not sure what I could do about it. Hopefully they will be reasonable; I'm sure they're not all bad - the people at my local tax office are very friendly. Also when I asked if I could have a reduction in my RSI payments because of my income they were very happy to oblige.

Herman

Yes, I'm being cynical and should stop. Hopefully the pressure from my accountant will help resolve this, it is one of the big global accountancy firms so they have some teeth. Also I've made it clear that I'm happy to pay my tax bill immediately, today if they want it, but they don't seem to want any money until they have processed my return. Hopefully my willingness to pay will also help them to see that I have no intention of trying to cause a delay.

G-J-B

That's the spirit, positive thinking! I've a feeling it will come good for you.

melbatb

Ours got lost in the system a few years ago! Our local tax authority simply asked for photocopies of the forms and redid the assessment. They never questioned if it had been sent or not (perhaps the fact that I was heavily pregnant might have helped!!!) It actually did turn up months later in another tax office who taxed us and charged the 10%! Thankfully the local office remembered me and it was all sorted out (though I did get them to confirm in writing that the second tax bill was not valid)

Anyway - in a nutshell, they can be reasonable!

Good luck!