Student lodgers
 

Am now progressing well towards a move to the Narbonne area from the UK and am researching my options for generating a modest income. One source of revenue which I have in the UK is from student lodgers, who stay with me and pay for the (dubious) privilige. HMRC allow you to generate an income through the 'Rent a room' scheme tax free up to a certain threshold (£8500 I think at present).
I wonder if anyone knows if a similar scheme is running in France and whether this is an option for generating a small income? I know that a large number of french students live with family & friends whilst studying, but there is still quite a large number of foreign students studying in France who need accomodation.

Re: Student lodgers
 

http://www.pleinevie.fr/Les-dossiers...a-mon-domicile
looks like a useful site.
It would be a source of income but it would not, on its own, provide a means of accessing French healthcare, so hopefully your plans include an alternative route into the system.

Re: Student lodgers
 

Thanks for that link. Very interesting. I see the €121 pcm allowance is dated 2008, so will have to get an updated figure, but most of the other criteria seem pretty simple and similar to those in the UK.
I haven't yet looked at all of the other pitfalls concerning tax & income and I will certainly have to get some professional advice along the way as I have a number of incomes which will be generated in France and others which will remain in the UK.
I generally take in MA or Phd students who have been excellent lodgers so far, as they study hard and have got past the party stage of their stay at Uni. The only problem I have found is with the property insurance, as most insurers consider student lodgers to be high risk, so they load the premium accordingly.

Re: Student lodgers
 

In France it is normal for the tenant to be required to take out their own insurance (point 8).

If you're looking to enter the French health/sécu system as an economically active resident but are not going to be 'employed', you'll have to register one or more of your sources of income under a French business régime, either self employed or as a business, so that you can pay cotisations through the business. If all of your income was earned in the UK and you never lifted a finger in France, or if everything you do in France is subsidiary to an established and continuing activity based in the UK, you might be eligible for an S1 - but not if you also have economic activity in France that is nowt to do with the UK.

Re: Student lodgers
 

Hi, I'm afraid you won't find many MA or Phd students in Narbonne - AFAIK the only higher education establishment there is an IUT.
However expensive the tenants' insurance is, it is compulsory. In addition to asking for a Guarantor (to ensure that the rents are paid), demand to see their paid-up Insurance Contract before you sign any lease!:)

Re: Student lodgers
 

Thanks for that info. It appears that Perpignan or Beziers is the nearest Uni, though there is a satellite branch of the Uni in Narbonne and they do take MA / Phd Erasmus students. I will do some more research. Just goes to show how easily mistakes can be made if you don't do the basic groundwork!
I have not found any difficulty in getting students to pay as they are contracted to pay at the beginning of each month and they always pay by internet standing order. Don't forget I will be living in the same house, so I don't think that guarantors are essential. As for the insurance, maybe the householder doesn't need to declare the lodgers to the insurance company, but if the student has to have it, then they will need it no matter where they live. In the UK as soon as you try to insure the house and declare that it isn't just the family members who are living there, it boots you off the web page and insists on a phone call for a quote.

Re: Student lodgers
 

Generally speaking, tenancy agreements in France give far more protection to the tenant and it is a lot harder for a landlord to evict a tenant, even if they don't pay the rent. There is a whole raft of legislation about tenants' rights and no matter what you put in the tenancy agreement, if it contradicts the law it will be overruled. For instance, you cannot evict a tenant during the winter, no matter how much rent they owe; you have to wait until Spring. As you say, it shouldn't be a problem if you see your tenants every day. But tenants in France do tend to know their rights and there are some who will use the law to their own advantage.

Never assume that what works in the UK will also work in France!

Re: Student lodgers
 

Hi,
Personally I wouldn't touch students with the proverbial barge pole, but no doubt post-graduates are likely to be less trouble, especially as their landlady will be in the same house.
As regards a guarantor, everyone expects you to require one, in order to cover unpaid rent and/or breakages that are in excess of the 'caution' or deposit you get paid with the first month's rent. You would be foolish not to do so, after all, imagine you went away for the weekend only to come back and found your lodgers had done a bunk.
As regards insurance, as you would no doubt be renting out a furnished room, the tenant is not required to be insured, contrary to the tenant renting out an unfurnished property, when insurance is compulsory. So you would have to put a clause in the lease stipulating that insurance is required.
Tax-wise, if your income does not go beyond €32,600 you would fall into the BIC category and would be taxed on 50% of rent paid. However you wouldn't be able to deduct expenses. You'd have to keep records of all rent paid of course.

Good luck with your venture,
PB

Re: Student lodgers
 

Thanks. So far I can say that I have had no trouble from my post grad student lodgers. They tend to be hard workers and focussed on their course work. What they mainly need is a quiet and safe environment.
As for the legislation side of things, there are reams of rules in the UK concerning tenant/landlord protection, but much of it is common sense and would be applicable to your own home in normal circumstances. I'm sure that the rules in France are similar, but most are not too daunting and I'm sure there are plenty of people who successfully take in student lodgers without mishap. Of course, living somewhere near to a university does help! :D

Re: Student lodgers
 

Oh dear, this can be a very dangerous assumption - whether it's lodgers, building regs or whatever.

Of course lots of people successfully take in lodgers, but knowing the rules increases the likelihood of everything running smoothly.

For instance, AFAIK there is no similar legislation to this in the UK, but every French person knows about it (and probably assumes that it is the same in every country):

Expulsion interdite durant la trêve hivernale

Aucune expulsion ne peut intervenir pendant la période dite de trêve hivernale allant du 1er novembre au 15 mars, à moins que l'expulsion ne soit engagée à l'encontre :

d'un squatteur,

ou d'un locataire qui loue un logement dans un immeuble qui a fait l'objet d'un arrêté de péril,

ou d'un locataire dont l'expulsion est assortie d'un relogement correspondant à ses besoins familiaux (le nombre de pièces doit correspondre au nombre d'occupants).

Common sense?

Re: Student lodgers
 

Thanks for the heads up ET. Perhaps I expressed myself badly. I wasn't assuming that french tenancy rules were the same or similar to those in the UK. I was implying that the rules in France were probably similarly drawn up to protect both the tenant & the landlord from, what the average household would consider to be, common sense rules. There are obviously going to be exceptions and I will knuckle down & plough my way through the fine print! Hopefully I won't illicit any more 'oh dears' from you! ;)
Actually, on a slightly different tangent, one of my biggest worries with student lodgers is that they absolutely require Wi-Fi access with large bandwidth. If you don't have it, they won't stay. Reading other posts on this BB it seems that internet access & costs in France are very variable. Another research project confronting me!

Re: Student lodgers
 

I think most people pay between 30€ and 40€ a month for adsl.

Sorry about the 'oh dear' :o

Re: Student lodgers
 

You don't say whether or not you will still be a part of the UK tax system.
Those of us with uk government pensions (teachers etc) are obliged to be part of the UK tax system regardless of where we live.

The small income I get from Chambres d'hote has to be part of the tax free allowance of HMRC. A bit ironic since it was an article in Le Monde when the French governmentintroduced the earnings releif that encouraged me to start Chambres d'hote.

You can't be taxed twice, so presumably you can't claim tax relief twice.

Re: Student lodgers
 

As I understood it, if you live in France but have earnings that are taxable in the UK, you fill in tax forms in both countries. You pay tax as a non resident on the UK income that is taxed at source in the UK, then you declare your worldwide earnings in France, don't pay any more tax in France on what has already been taxed (as per double taxation treat) but pay tax on the part of your income that is taxable in France. Which would include earnings from a chambre d'hote.

If you live in France you have no option but to fill in an annual income declaration in France, it's a legal requirement. Otherwise, you are not going to be considered legally resident and your house in France will be treated as a residence secondaire.

Re: Student lodgers
 

I am keen to preserve my ties with the UK, so will be seeking advice on how to arrange my tax liability. I will eventually receive a normal UK state pension (not govt employed) , but at the moment I am looking to receive income from both the UK and France. As to which jurisdiction I will fall into is anyone's guess at the moment. (I trade UK equities via a UK internet broker, so I assume that part of my income will be taxable via HMRC) but I admit I haven't yet done my research on that subject.