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Residency question around the 183 day rules

Residency question around the 183 day rules

Old Mar 17th 2018, 5:47 pm
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Default Residency question around the 183 day rules

Good afternoon,

New here so apologies if there is already an answer to this question.

My understanding is that you only become resident in France for tax purposes if you stay for 183 days or more in any calendar year. To me that implies that if I spend 120 days there to 31st December 2018, I would have another 182 days in 2019.

My fear is that this is wishful thinking on my part. I would appreciate any advice on this

Thanks
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Old Mar 17th 2018, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Well, to start with the 183 day rule is an urban myth as far as France is concerned.

Under French law, you are classed as resident if you meet one, or more, of the following 3 criteria:

- votre foyer (conjoint ou partenaire d'un PACS et enfants) reste en France. Ce peut être le cas si vous êtes amené, en raison de nécessités professionnelles, � séjourner dans un autre pays temporairement ou pendant la plus grande partie de l'année. A défaut de foyer, le domicile fiscal se définit par votre lieu de séjour principal ;
ou
- vous exercez en France une activité professionnelle salariée ou non, sauf si elle est accessoire ;
ou
- vous avez en France le centre de vos intérêts économiques. Il s'agit du lieu de vos principaux investissements, du siège de vos affaires, du centre de vos activités professionnelles, ou le lieu d'où vous tirez la majeure partie de vos revenus.

So if France is where your family home is, or where you work, or where your main income is derived from, or where most of your assets are located, then you would be classed as tax resident in France regardless of how many days you spent or didn't spend here. The only situation where the number of days spent in France would come into it, would be if you don't have an easily identifiable main or family home, nor a main source of income that can be linked to a particular country, nor one particular country where your assets are. In that case, if you'd spent longer in France than any other country - but not necessarily 183 days because you might have spent time in several countries - you could be classed as resident.

Aside from that, you are correct in your interpretation of a calendar year. A calendar year means the period between 1st Jan and 31st Dec, ie the French tax year; it doesn't mean a rolling 12-month period.

Hope this helps.
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Old Mar 17th 2018, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Many thanks for your reply Eurotrash.

Since none of the conditions you mention are applicable to me ( I am simply renting a house for an extended break with a view to possible re-location) it would seem that I do not need to worry.

Very surprising that what you refer to as an urban myth is quoted on so many websites though.

Happy with your interpretation however so that is one less thing to worry about. Just the medical cover, car insurance, extended travel insurance, risk of having a UK plated car in France for a few days over six months, etc etc.
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Old Mar 17th 2018, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Originally Posted by Confus
Very surprising that what you refer to as an urban myth is quoted on so many websites though.
I'm a great believer in referring to official sites when it comes to checking official regulations, so if you find this "myth" quoted on a French government website please do come back with a link, I'll be interested to see it

In your situation I think what is more important is whether or not the UK classes you as a leaver. UK tax residency is based on a complex mix of days spent in the UK and "ties" https://www.gov.uk/government/public...dence-test-srt and in fact it's quite hard to get out of HMRC's clutches. If you take the test you'll probably find you're still classed as UK resident even if you spend way over 180 days out of the UK. So I don't think you have anything to worry about on the tax front.
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Old Mar 18th 2018, 10:53 am
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Originally Posted by Confus
Many thanks for your reply Eurotrash.

Since none of the conditions you mention are applicable to me ( I am simply renting a house for an extended break with a view to possible re-location) it would seem that I do not need to worry.

Very surprising that what you refer to as an urban myth is quoted on so many websites though.

Happy with your interpretation however so that is one less thing to worry about. Just the medical cover, car insurance, extended travel insurance, risk of having a UK plated car in France for a few days over six months, etc etc.
Hi
I have to agree with ET.
It is not a matter if you think that you are tax resident or not - it is not your choice. Your interpretation of the rules doesn't count.
It is a matter of if France thinks that you are tax resident according to their interpretation of the rules.
If you move to France with the intention of living there then you are tax resident from day one.
The rules are slightly different for those who are earning a living and those who are not and have a home in each country.
It does not matter if you are renting or not.
If it can be shown that you are paying taxe d'habitation (council tax) and electricity etc then it can be shown that you are resident in France.
If you are tax resident in France then you must complete a french tax return each year showing your worldwide income and tax paid which would be treated under the France - UK double taxation treaty so yu would not pay tax twice.
It has been described elsewhere that you are resident where your family photos are on the mantelpiece.
You could be considered to be tax resident in France even if you only visited at weekends but your family lived there all week.
It is a very complex thing to establish tax residency and could be an expensive mistake if you get it wrong.
HTH
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Old Mar 18th 2018, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Originally Posted by Confus
Many thanks for your reply Eurotrash.

Since none of the conditions you mention are applicable to me ( I am simply renting a house for an extended break with a view to possible re-location) it would seem that I do not need to worry.

Very surprising that what you refer to as an urban myth is quoted on so many websites though.

Happy with your interpretation however so that is one less thing to worry about. Just the medical cover, car insurance, extended travel insurance, risk of having a UK plated car in France for a few days over six months, etc etc.
Don't worry my friend. There have been UK plated cars here in Brittany for years used by full time residents. Luckily the cops can't be bothered, the insurance agents can't be bothered, and neither can the expats who like to dwell in the "grey area".
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Old Mar 18th 2018, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: Residency question around the 183 day rules

Originally Posted by LowriderChevy
Don't worry my friend. There have been UK plated cars here in Brittany for years used by full time residents. Luckily the cops can't be bothered, the insurance agents can't be bothered, and neither can the expats who like to dwell in the "grey area".
I agree that UK plated cars have been in use here for years by full time residents, and also agree that for years the authorities have turned a blind eye, having had too many other issues to deal with, and especially because they have not had the means to control this practise. However imho it's foolhardy to advise Brits not to worry about this, because people should be advised that the authorities are not only interested, they now have the tools to check and control foreign licence plates. They are doing this throughout the hexagon, and to those who do not conform they are issuing fines.
To clarify, those who do not conform have committed a 'contravention' 4eme classe under article R317-8. Unless things have changed since last informed, no points would be deducted from a licence, but the fine would be 135€. In the event of corrective action not being taken the fine would rise to 375€, 750€, and finally immobilisation of the vehicle.
Another reason I would never advise anyone "not to worry", is that in the event of an accident resulting in injury or death, an individual would have an unenviable task resolving issues with their insurance company.
Useful Link 1
Link 2
Link 3 - concerning excessive speeding by a UK reg car in Italy!
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