amyboo

Hello - desperately looking for some advice...

Me and DH have been living in the centre of Brussels (Belgium) for 9 years. I've now been offered a very good job with a good salary with a large international company in Elancourt (Yvelines - 78). As we have a DS (8 months) we'd be looking at living around the RER line C (probably Montigny Le Bretonneaux). I'd then have a short drive to work. DH however would be working near Pantin (13th arrondissement), so would face a commute of around 1h10 each morning and evening.

I guess what I'm asking is: Would this be a bad move? DH is prepared to do the commute, as moving to Paris (where his company are HQ) would open up far more opportunities for him. I don't really know anything about Yvelines, or Elancourt, but it seems quite nice. Can anyone advise? Would it be good for families?

My big concern is sorting childcare for DS. He's currently in a creche in Brussels and really enjoys it, so I'd like him to be in creche again ideally. The French seem to go in for childminders a lot. Does anyone have any experience of these or creches? Also, any idea of cost?

I have 15 days to decide, so am trying to gather all the info we need to make an informed choice. I guess main motivations to move would be: better schools/education system, more open space, closer to family (in Toulouse), better jobs, etc.

Ka Ora!

Welcome to the Forum Amy, Whilst im not at that end of France we do have a few members that are. All the Creches in France that our children have attended have been good. Anyway once again welcome should you get any issues give me a shout....

dmu

Hi, I don't live in Paris any more, but go there quite often.
Just a check about the location of Pantin. It isn't in the south of Paris (13ème) but right over in the NE suburbs, just outside of Paris in the 93 département. Depending on whereabouts in Pantin your OH will be working, he'd have at least one RER or métro change on the RER ligne C, and 1h10 sounds optimistic to me from so far out west.
I don't know Elancourt, Montigny..., so can't help there.
The problem about crêches in France, esp. in towns, is the waiting list and priority is given to low-wage earners. The Mairie of the town you choose to live in will give you a list of official child-minders (assistantes maternelles) who look after a limited number of babies/toddlers in their own home. I myself was lucky as I was working from home in the S.W. suburbs when my two were born, and the Mairie found me a minder who came to us for several hours each day.
Hope this is of some help. It's a difficult decision for you to make, so good luck!

amyboo

Thanks for the response. Sorry, yes, I got the number wrong for Pantin. It's on RER line E in the north-east of Paris. The figure of 1 hour 10 was what I got from the RATP website.... From Montigny it would involve two changes.

We've had some advice from a few Parisian friends and acquaintances that we should look at living more towards St Germain en Laye, Versailles and surrounding areas. Any experience of these? This would also cut DH's commute down slightly. I'd be then driving away from Paris to get to work in the morning - according to Googlemaps, it would be about a 20 minute drive from St Germain en Laye. Does this sound about right?

dmu

I think 20 mins. from St Germain to Elancourt is being optimistic, as there doesn't seem to be a direct ring-road between St G. and Versailles.
I was in fact thinking you might be better off living in Versailles which is more lively and dynamic than a dormitory town, is close to Elancourt, and has a big choice of RERs/SNCF for your OH to negotiate Paris.
Hope this helps!

amyboo

The only problem with Versailles is the cost of housing. Even rental property seems to be insanely expensive. We currently own a decent-sized 2 bed appartment, so we'd be looking to rent for a few months- a year and then ideally would want to buy (preferably a house). I think that would just be unfeasable in anyway remotely near Versailles.... What do you think?

cyrian

Have a look at Parly2 or Marly-le-Roi.
Both in the same area but not as well known.

Herman

St Germain en Laye is a wonderful town. We live just next door in Le Vesinet. But please do not trust the RATP website or Google for travel times! For me to commute from Le Vesinet, two stops nearer Paris then St Germain, to work in the centre of Paris (just off Champs Elysees) takes between 50 minutes and 1hour 15 minutes door to door. The trains are very unreliable these days, rather similar to living around London. Having said that, St Germain en Laye is beautiful and lively town and we tried to find a place there when we relocated. But, St Germain and Le Vesinet are both extremely expensive. You will need a generous company allowance to live in these suburbs. We have €3,800 per month allowance and it was not enough for a nice place in the part of St Germain we wanted (near the train station) and was only just enough 10 minutes walk from Le Vesinet station. Driving anywhere near St Germain in the rush hour is very very busy so I'm afraid your morning drive will not be easy. I think you need to be realistic - to live in a nice suburb like St Germain en Laye I think your husband is facing at least a 1h to 1h 20 commute and you will be facing a 30 to 40 minute drive by car. Personally I'm not that keen on the other areas you mentioned, although Versailles is a good shout but similar to St Germain its not cheap and the traffic is chaotic, probably more so than St Germain.

Herman

Forgot to mention that we use a state creche up the road from our house in Le Vesinet for 12 hours a week for our 18 month and its fantastic and almost free. Well, only €2 per hour.

Our 3 year old on the other hand goes to a wonderful expatriate ecole maternelle in Le Vesinet 35 hours a week which costs €8,000 per year. Company pays for that though. ne of the key consideration for you - the main hubs in Yvelines for expat creches, ecole maternelles and schools are St Germain en Laye, Le Vesinet, Chatou and Versailles. Hence most expats choose these suburbs and hence rents are ludicrously high in these suburbs but they are great places to live.

A more rural town that you should have a look at is St Nom la Bretache or "St Nom La British" as the French call it as plenty of Brits live there. Really lovely typical French looking town (think high street with shuttered windowed medieval houses) with some great forest around, a train link that by all account works OK (a bit better than the unreliable RER A from St Germain en Laye) to St Lazare and I think your husband could then switch to RER E. Still he would be looking at a 1h 15 to 1h 30 commute but you would be the right side of St Germain and Versailles to have an easier drive to your work.

G-J-B

Le Vesinet is a beautiful place and has some incredibly properties, but I know a young Manchester girl who works as a secretary and her boyfriend who installs air conditioning, who live there on a small salary, so I don't think it's fair to say it's all expensive. She works in the 16eme (just off Champs Elysees), and that takes about an hour, though with the snow tonight, I imagine considerably longer, as the buses have had problems apparently.
Doubt you could go wrong with any of the places Herman mentions - you might also want to investigate Saint Cloud and Boulogne Billancourt if they fall into your budget, as these are nice areas, and the commute shorter.

Competition for creches can be fierce, depending where you live in the city. I wasn't able to get a place for my baby, and it doesn't necessarily go to low income families - they mix it up, rich and poor. Sometimes, being Paris, it's also a case of 'who you know' sadly. The private creches can be very expensive, and there's ones that are means tested, so you might just pay 5 euros a day or 30 euros a day depending on your income.

I never looked into the nanny option as I see too many of them pushing around kids and babies, clearly more interested in chatting to their friends than taking care of them. Of course, I've seen some goods ones too, but if the parents could see how some of them are 'looked after' they'd be none too pleased. I believe there's some nice tax benefits for using a child minder, but you'd have to pay everything up front before you saw those benefits from what I understand.

AndyHenson

Sorry to tell you 20 minutes is WAY optomistic. We live in Noisy-le-Roi, South of St Germain, and Elancourt is half an hour I would guess at commuting time.

Elancourt and Pantin are just not realistic, sorry

AndyHenson

Sorry, that sounds very negative....lets say it would be very challenging. I drive for my commute from Noisy-le-Roi to Sevres, exactly 15 km, and it takes 30 minutes (25 during summer holiday time, 35 minutes in the winter, more on a bad day).

amyboo

Thanks for all the comments. We turned down the job on Friday - there was just too much to try and consider. We aren't looking for an "expat" life, as we've already lived in Brussels for 9 years, but were concerned about the lack of creche places, my husband's commute and the rental prices. Life here is very easy compared to what we could have been facing in IDF....

AndyHenson

At the moment its looking like we made a bad decsion! We too lived in Brussels (north of Tervuren) and liked it. Here its just so expensive, and so far, not very friendly. Maybe things will improve.