EuroTrash

You're very welcome Robert, glad that strategy did the trick for you and thank you for coming back with an update.
Now you can put all thoughts of Devil's Island out of your head and enjoy Christmas with a clear conscience
Stay safe.

Listen Very Carefully

Yes thanks for letting us know it is always good to get feedback on advice given especially if it works ....but more importantly if it does not work.....

Helen1964

I’m very glad to hear the OP managed to get things sorted out and that his local tax office was understanding.
He’s lucky, though. Here in Alsace several friends who have held up their hands and volunteered information about failures to report income, because they were genuinely unaware they had to, have been treated less sympathetically.

His case does raise the question about how the exchange of information between the UK and French tax authorities works. I’ve always assumed that it’s automatic - i.e. any information HMRC has about a person’s earnings and tax liabilities is automatically passed on to the Fisc.
It would appear from this example - where the gentleman had been declaring a pension and rental income to HMRC for years without the Fisc ever finding out - that that is not the case.
Is the arrangement more that if the Fisc actively solicits information from HMRC, HMRC has to hand it over?
Just curious.

EuroTrash

From what I understand, certain basic data are shared automatically on a regular basis, and other more specific data can be requested.
I say that because I remember translating documents relating to tax investigations where the fisc stated things like "in response to our request to HMRC dated such date, HMRC provided the following information".

I suspect that 99 per cent of the data that is shared automatically, is never looked at. I am thinking of a temp job I had in a bank when I was young, and one of my weekly tasks was to file computer generated reports printed on that computer paper with thin green lines across it and holes down both sides, that folds up like a concertina. There were loads of different reports with very similar names and you had to keep your mind on the job or you would file the wrong ones in the wrong files. Each report was just hundreds and hundreds of pages of lists of movements and transactions reported under various categories, mile after mile after mile of account names and numbers and figures, and here and there maybe once every ten pages one was flagged up with asterisks by it. The reports were delivered to departmental managers every Monday morning and by Wednesday they were being sent for filing. And this was just one branch of one bank. The amount of data shared digitally these days by national tax authorities must be phenomenal and I am imagining that it's only certain entries that are flagged up by the computer, such as high value transactions or a certain pattern of movements or names that is on some kind of watch-list for money laundering, that are of any immediate interest, and apart from that it's all stored away to be referred to later if necessary. Cross checking every single entry and following up every discrepancy wouldn't be feasible, it would take armies of fonctionnaires and it wouldn't be justifiable in most cases since probably most of the irregularities will be very minor ones involving minimal tax lost to France.

So I don't think yer average person of moderate means can expect a knock on the door because of data shared by the UK with France, but, if for some reason the fisc decide to take an interest in that person - either because his name got chosen for a random spot check, or because a jealous neighbour snitched, or for some business irregularity that came to their attention - they would be able to trace him back over the years through the shared data they have stored away, and build a potential framework case that they they flesh out by requesting more details from HMRC. But, that is just how I have imagined it to work, based on what I've gleaned from translating tax investigation documentation.

Helen1964

Sounds very plausible. Thanks EuroTrash.

cyrian

The system has changed in the last few years to pick up people hiding money or money laundering throuout the world.
There are lots of countries who are sharing information with tax authorities in other countries.
I have an account in Ireland and I was asked for my nationality and specifically if I was a US citizen - which I am not.
For example, if a french bank notify HMRC of an account which is not known by HMRC then HMRC will issue a "fishing" letter which states that they believe you have overseas bank accounts.
They then ask you if perhaps you have inadvertentley omitted to inform them of the account or perhaps you were advised that it was not necessary.
You are then asked if you have any accounts that you wish to declare which wuld include reduced penalties because of voluntary declaration and any accrued interest.
Whether they know the details of any accounts or not is not stated but it is up to you to make a declaration or not.
This way they scoop up any accounts that you know you have not declared.
I assume that the system works similarly in the opposite direction.

EuroTrash

You've got me worried now Cyrian - are UK residents supposed to declare overseas bank accounts to HMRC??? I wasn't aware of that, there's nothing about it on the UK tax form.
I declared my overseas income obviously, but not the bank accounts themselves.

US citizens are a special case because of FATCA, banks hate getting involved.

cyrian

They aren't worried about the accounts as such but only if you owe them money.
If you only have a current a/c with no income then there is nothing to interest HMRC.
The reason they send letters with that wording is to get you worried enough to declare any undeclared income.
If you have a Livret which is tax-free in France but taxable in the UK then you need to declare the income plus the account details.
It is the same for expats in France who still have ISAs which would be taxed in France.
Other than a current a/c, I have no other accounts in France and therefore no need to declare this to HMRC .
For my UK tax return, any UK interest bearing accounts are listed with sort code and a/c number and the date of closure if appropriate.
I also record the start date for my own records.
HTH

EuroTrash

Ouf, thanks for that Cyrian.
For a moment I thought I'd missed something and the UK was like France where you risk getting fined if you didn't religiously declare the account numbers etc of all your overseas accounts each year.

Listen Very Carefully

Well the main reason OMHO for Brits to be investigated is that so many of them love to put their head over the parapet and then whine when they get it shot off As I have been saying for years (yawn) if you come to live in the EU just comply with what is required get your paper work sorted your car re registered and cut out all the wizard wheezes that save you a few quid in the short term but cost a lot later on
Then if you do get into a bit of a muddle and make an honest mistake you will be treated sympathetically and the fonctionnaires will try to help you as the OP has discovered