mistyhall

Hi there,
I wonder if anybody could help?
I am looking for a long term rental for myself and my husband and our horses.
Around 10 acres would be great with 2 bed accommodation in the Brittany/Normandy/Loire region up to a year.
A generous rent would be paid for the right place ( looking for the end April) perhaps people with holiday lets may consider us??
Excellent references available ( we will be house hunting) for two professional people.
All suggestions welcome ( wouldn't mind sharing an equestrian center with owner)
Many thanks

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!
Can't help re rental, except to suggest googling "Centres Equestres" or "Immobiliers Equestres" for the areas mentioned.
How many horses do you have?
The Government site
http://www.douane.gouv.fr/page.asp?id=46#0
states that 5 is the maximum, and animals not listed as "pets" must undergo veterinary examinations upon arrival.
It might be simpler if you leave your horses in the UK while you are house-hunting?
Hope this helps a little....

mistyhall

Hi there,
Oh my i didnt realise that was the case!! I will want to bring 7!
They will be two broodmares with this years foals, last years foal and my two riding horses!!!
I breed Tb's for racing.
I also have 5 dogs 3 springers and a pointer and a weimeraner. They are working dogs and the short haired ones are allowed in the kitchen ( not in the rest of the house) and the others live out in kennels.
All my dogs are chipped and of course will have the relevant passports.
All my horses have french/english passports and are chipped and dna typed because of the racing.
I would be looking to rent for a min of a year so wont be able to leave them at home!
I have seen a couple of places ideal but now my concern is with the numbers!
I will look into that.
Many thanks

Novocastrian

Now, dmu's french is orders of magnitude better than mine, but I interpret

"Attention : Le contrôle des services douaniers s'effectue dans le cadre d'un mouvement dépourvu de caractère commercial et concernant un nombre inférieur ou égal à 5 spécimens. Quand ces conditions ne sont pas respectées, ce sont les services vétérinaires qui sont responsables du contrôle de ces animaux en PIF. Ce contrôle donne lieu à la délivrance d'un document vétérinaire commun d'entrée (DVCE) qui doit être obligatoirement présenté à l'appui de la déclaration en douane."

as saying that if there are more than 5 and/or the import is for commercial reasons (I'd have thought breeding racehorses was commercial) then you need an additional document called the DVCE to present to customs.

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I think you're OK.

mistyhall

Hi there,
I am trying to read through but as usual DEFRA are of no help!!
Sadly it is only a hobby that i breed and not a business,as in it costs more than i make!
My husband would dearly love for me to go with 0 horses but that will not happen!
I will have to think hard ( i already have three that probably wouldnt make the journey as old/retired and will have to stay back in the UK)

Novocastrian

Surely it's still a business even if you lose money at it. Anyway it's and/or: i.e. even if they're classified as pets you're still OK with this DVCE thingy. (I think).

mistyhall

Not according to the tax man!! Apparently you should try to make money in order to register as a business!! Hes never owned horses then!!!!!lol Seriously though i do it because i enjoy it i dont want to have it as a commercial enterprise i have a business that luckily does make money ( well sometimes!!)
I will have a look at this DVCE
Many thanks for your help.

cyrian

Is that the UK taxman?
I would take advice from a french accountant about what constitutes a business in France. The law in France is VERY different from the UK.

e.g. If you run an internet business in France and all you clients are in the UK then you are still operating a business according to the french taxman.
Even if you just answer the phone, it can be considered as operating a business.
If you are resident in France and you are selling horses for money then I suspect that the french authorities would view that as running a business.
How about your other (sometimes profitable) business?
Do you intend to continue to run that?
If you operate a business but do not register, then if the taxman finds out or somebody reports you, you will be considered to be working "on the black" - and will be fined.
You really should get professional advice from a french accountant before you arrive in France. English Law does not apply in France - neither common law nor tax law.
I am having dinner tomorrow night with a french accountant - I will try to get an answer for you.
Good luck

dmu

Hi, you haven't misunderstood, but the famous DVCE is a French document. I understood it to mean that if the "specimens" are in excess of 5 and are being brought over for commercial purposes, a special Veterinary Service examines them at the Port of Arrival (instead of just the Customs for fewer than 5 "pets") and issues this DVCE which is then to be presented to support the Customs Declaration.
As mentioned, if the OP wants to sell the horses she breeds, she must set herself up as a business. Not only for tax, social security, professional insurance, etc..., but potential buyers will want official certificates before they buy. If her other professional activity has nothing to do with horses, she'd have to set up two different business structures, and I have a suspicion that you're only allowed to set up one Auto-Entrepreneur per person...
Mistyhall, please do your homework carefully and as suggested, consult a French Expert-Comptable to see what your best options are!

Novocastrian

Phew!

dmu

Sorry, I missed this.
What I meant was, get some one to look after your horses in the UK while you are house-hunting here, to avoid a second move for them when you leave your rented place (which will be easier to find if you don't need land for them).

cyrian

Misty
As promised, I asked the Expert-Comptable (chartered accountant) about the status if you sell horses.
His answer was quite clear.
If you own horses then it is a hobby.
If you sell horses then it is an "agricultural business" - his words -and you would have to set up an appropriate business regime.
In France you do not operate under British Law(innocent until proved guilty) - you operate under the Napoleonic Code.
If you are accused of breaking the Code then you have to prove that you have not.
As has been said above, you need to verify your tax status with a french Expert-Comptable before you make your move.
Good luck

Supermrslang

Hi Misty

Have you managed to find out anymore about moving with your horses? Have you found anywhere yet?

We are doing something similar and actively looking to buy in the Limousin region and take our 2 horses. I event with them at the lower level and hope to still compete every now and again when we move hopefully. I have looked for property to rent 1st but have not found anything with land

Would be great to keep in contact with you & know more about your experience doing this and vice versa.

Any advice, learning curves, ups & downs, do's & dont's would be appreciated

cyrian

Not a big deal but just to be warned - in France when you compete in competitions (AFAIK all sports) you need to register a medical certificate which says that there are no medical reasons why you can't compete.
Just something else for you to check out so that you don't get a surprise if they ask you.

Supermrslang

Thanks for that info, that is new to me, understand that the horses have to registered as well as being micro chipped, so much to get my head around