DigitalGhost

It's not entirely without precedent. Canadians can visit the US for tourism purposes visa-free and remain for up to 6 months in a single trip. ESTA-eligible travellers only get 3 months and anybody else requires a visa. There is no reason why a similar agreement couldn't be reached between the UK and the EU and in fact it would benefit the EU because it would mean retirees could easily spend 6 months in the Mediterranean every year. That kind of winter tourism during the off-peak season has actually helped to keep some parts of Southern Europe afloat. Remove that option and they will just take their money to Turkey and elsewhere instead.

DigitalGhost

AFAIK, nobody is talking about working. They're discussing long-stay tourism and the UK already allows visits of up to 6 months anyway. This would actually just balance things.

EuroTrash

Nail on head, unfortunately.
Also nose and face. These same quarters were so keen on being like Australia, but Australia is part of France's young traveller scheme https://france-visas.gouv.fr/web/fra...plus-de-3-mois. So what these certain quarters have proudly achieved, is to deprive Brits of the opportunities that young people from all these countries have:

• Australie,
• Argentine,
• Brésil,
• Canada (accord sur la mobilité des jeunes),
• Chili,
• Colombie,
• Corée du Sud,
• Japon,
• Nouvelle-Zélande,
• Hong Kong,
• Mexique,
• Pérou,
• Russie,
• Taïwan,
• Uruguay.

Hopefully they will eventually get over themselves and take their blinkers off, but how long will it take..

EuroTrash

Well, I'm talking about working simply to put the two different situations into context.
If HMG is going to agree more favourable arrangements for anyone, I think it should be for youngsters and artistes who want to work in the EU.
Why these tourists don't apply for long stay tourist visas like other TCNs do, is beyond me.

scrubbedexpat0105

And that is precisely the point. The issue from the EU side is the indivisibility of the four freedoms. This petition is an example of the picking and choosing of aspects of EU membership that the UK (or some in the UK, or some expat Brits) would like to retain, whilst rejecting the aspects of EU membership that it does not.

When it comes to British tourists on the Med, it's in "everyone's interests" for the EU to be generous in not requiring visas. When it comes to foreign workers in the UK, the issue is "sovereignty" and "taking back control of our borders".

DigitalGhost

No because Europeans don't need visitor visas for Britain and AFAIK, nobody is arguing that they should although considering this current UK government is obsessed with replicating Australia in every conceivable way, it wouldn't surprise me if that happened at some point. Australia and NZ are probably the only developed countries in the world with a blanket visa policy and no waiver system.

Look, I'm on your side in many ways. There was absolutely no reason for Brexit to have to happen on NYD 2021. Whilst I did support the idea of Brexit, I think the challenges of 2020 outweighed the urgency of "getting it done". It just added more uncertainty at a time when that was the absolute last thing the country needed. Postponing it for another year or two in light of the pandemic really wouldn't have hurt anyone.

EuroTrash

Also of course, there are tourists and tourists.
One could speculate that this particular category of tourist, ie Brits who have acquired the habit of staying at their home from home long term, are not the same category of high spending tourists that countries want to attract. For a lot of people the main point of having a holiday home is not to live the tourist lifestyle, eating at restaurants every day and doing the tourist attractions and buying souvenirs and stuff. What countries really want is tourists who spend as much in a fortnight in hotels, restaurants and visitor attractions, as holiday home owners do in three months.

DigitalGhost

The same youth mobility, international study (excluding Erasmus) and working holiday programs that were there pre-Brexit will still be there after the pandemic has ended. They will still be able to apply for temporary visas and work permits for Canada, Australia, Japan and elsewhere because those programs had absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

DigitalGhost

But they will still benefit the local economy. Even if you hole yourself up on a caravan park in Benidorm, you will still be putting money into the local supermarkets and paying ground fees etc plus the occasional trip to the pub.

DaveLovesDee

It's a good post, and the above is basically those pepole looking for an extension in a nutshell...

They chose not to fulfil the legal requirement for residency when we were an EU member state, and still don't want to be bothered with the same requirements now we're not... But now, they're not going to get away with it as easily.

scrubbedexpat0105

DG, I don't think this is a question of "sides" (yours and mine). It's the fact that agreements were reached after years of painful negotiations, yet only a month and a half after the definitive date, one side is trying to unpick them. (Both the British government, and individual British interest groups, although they are trying to unpick quite different things.) The impression is that the UK side talks as if Brexit were done and dusted, but acts as if it were a work in progress.

Both sides made concessions. There isn't much desire on the EU side to re-open the whole thing. Of course, one could say that it's just a little tweak. But then numerous parties on both sides would want their own little tweaks to an agreement that they don't think is "working", or in their view gave too much away.

DigitalGhost

Again, I'm in complete agreement with you. Whilst I would support closer ties and abilities to travel from both sides, I think it's too early in the process to look at that and this is something that can really wait until people are again actually in a position to travel for recreation or business trips anyway. I really can't blame the EU for just wanting to draw a line under the whole thing though.

EuroTrash

Yes absolutely. WHVs etc are not a thing HMG would negotiate with the EU, they are a thing to be negotiated bi-laterally. The UK didn't used to need this kind of arrangement, but now it does. The question is, when will HMG soften its stance and get round to it?

EuroTrash

Yes you will, and you're paying property taxes too. I'm not saying they don't benefit the economy. I'm just saying that trying to make a case based on their benefits to the tourist industry, may be the wrong argument to be using.

DigitalGhost

But you can make the same argument elsewhere tbh. Here in Canada there are retirees and even some remote workers who spend the winters in Florida. Most of them will likely remain at home for most of their time there and will eat food from supermarkets etc and some even drive down in RV's but parts of the local economy in Florida have grown to depend on them.