New angle on CPAM
#1
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Charente
Posts: 546
New angle on CPAM
Hi,
I have an unusual (I Think) problem with CPAM in Angouleme. The situation is this: I received my Carte Vitale without any difficulty having reached 65 years of age and full retirement. My wife, who is a Swedish Citizen, has just reached 65 and when we Went into CPAM yesterday about her Carte Vitale, we were told as follows 'l'acte de naissance suédois doit être apostillé, veuillez demander à l'autorité d'où émane l'acte dé délivrer une apostille et nous returner le dossier complet.
My question is: Both the UK and Sweden are constitutional monarchies and are member states of the EU, neither of them has any dispute with France, why this piece of bureacracy? Is is possible for CPAM to deny my wife a carte Vitale simply on these grounds?
Any answers greatly appreciated as this is quiet a worrying situation.
Thanks
Blackie
I have an unusual (I Think) problem with CPAM in Angouleme. The situation is this: I received my Carte Vitale without any difficulty having reached 65 years of age and full retirement. My wife, who is a Swedish Citizen, has just reached 65 and when we Went into CPAM yesterday about her Carte Vitale, we were told as follows 'l'acte de naissance suédois doit être apostillé, veuillez demander à l'autorité d'où émane l'acte dé délivrer une apostille et nous returner le dossier complet.
My question is: Both the UK and Sweden are constitutional monarchies and are member states of the EU, neither of them has any dispute with France, why this piece of bureacracy? Is is possible for CPAM to deny my wife a carte Vitale simply on these grounds?
Any answers greatly appreciated as this is quiet a worrying situation.
Thanks
Blackie
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 142
Re: New angle on CPAM
We had to have an Australian birth certificate apostilled for CPAM. It appears normal for some countries and thankfully was not difficult to organise.
#3
Re: New angle on CPAM
Blackie surely as YOU have reached 65, are in receipt of SRP and are in receipt of a Carte Vitale, your wife will be entitled anyway?
If she particularly wants her own, the issue, whilst irritating, should be just that - irritating bureaucracy.
I don't know what age women receive the State Pension in Sweden, so is that the sticking point? (I cannot see what relevance being a constitutional monarchy could have)?
If she particularly wants her own, the issue, whilst irritating, should be just that - irritating bureaucracy.
I don't know what age women receive the State Pension in Sweden, so is that the sticking point? (I cannot see what relevance being a constitutional monarchy could have)?
#4
Re: New angle on CPAM
I think it's more likely that the estimated €20-25 billion defrauding of the social security system might have something to do with it. I am sure there are people who have falsified their birth certificates and got their pensions early.
The shame of it is that the honest ones pay the price, both through higher taxation and having to jump the same hurdles as "les fraudeurs".
The shame of it is that the honest ones pay the price, both through higher taxation and having to jump the same hurdles as "les fraudeurs".
#5
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Charente
Posts: 546
Re: New angle on CPAM
Thanks for the answers,
Biggsie, the retirement age for women is 65 in Sweden as well, and the reference to the constitutional monarchy was simply by way of example that Sweden and the UK are similar in many respects so why this particular demand from CPAM?
I agree fully about the benefits cheats, and this could well be one move by the authorities to stem the tide, but it's not as if my wife had just stepped off a boat in Marseille and asked for the early handouts! (we have both worked 40 years and have paid our contributions into the Swedish Welfare system).
I Think that discrimination in this matter is taken to signify that one member state is asked to provide more information than other member states.
Biggsie, the retirement age for women is 65 in Sweden as well, and the reference to the constitutional monarchy was simply by way of example that Sweden and the UK are similar in many respects so why this particular demand from CPAM?
I agree fully about the benefits cheats, and this could well be one move by the authorities to stem the tide, but it's not as if my wife had just stepped off a boat in Marseille and asked for the early handouts! (we have both worked 40 years and have paid our contributions into the Swedish Welfare system).
I Think that discrimination in this matter is taken to signify that one member state is asked to provide more information than other member states.
#6
Re: New angle on CPAM
BLackie We have some difficulties too, although like you we have a total of 80 plus contributions.
Digging down, in our case it seems to be as a result of the DWP being difficult - the UK seems to be withdrawing all benefits that are not matched by other member states.
Perhaps France is beginning to do likewise?
The trouble is, of course, we in the middle are not aware of those nuances.
Digging down, in our case it seems to be as a result of the DWP being difficult - the UK seems to be withdrawing all benefits that are not matched by other member states.
Perhaps France is beginning to do likewise?
The trouble is, of course, we in the middle are not aware of those nuances.
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: 61 Normandy
Posts: 297
Re: New angle on CPAM
Blackie surely as YOU have reached 65, are in receipt of SRP and are in receipt of a Carte Vitale, your wife will be entitled anyway?
If she particularly wants her own, the issue, whilst irritating, should be just that - irritating bureaucracy.
I don't know what age women receive the State Pension in Sweden, so is that the sticking point? (I cannot see what relevance being a constitutional monarchy could have)?
If she particularly wants her own, the issue, whilst irritating, should be just that - irritating bureaucracy.
I don't know what age women receive the State Pension in Sweden, so is that the sticking point? (I cannot see what relevance being a constitutional monarchy could have)?
#9
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Charente
Posts: 546
Re: New angle on CPAM
Thanks TB, a very valid Point!
we have now been informed that the Swedish State Agencies stopped issuing Apostilles in 2005! So what do we do now?
we have now been informed that the Swedish State Agencies stopped issuing Apostilles in 2005! So what do we do now?
#10
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Dépt 61
Posts: 5,254
Re: New angle on CPAM
Go back to CPAM, show them a French version the source document that states this, and ask what they will accept in its place?
Most of the people at CPAM are human beings and the best approach is to try to co-operate with them so that you can overcome the hurdle together. Not to regard them personally as the hurdle that has to be overcome.
Most of the people at CPAM are human beings and the best approach is to try to co-operate with them so that you can overcome the hurdle together. Not to regard them personally as the hurdle that has to be overcome.
#11
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: 42
Posts: 445
Re: New angle on CPAM
Go back to CPAM, show them a French version the source document that states this, and ask what they will accept in its place?
Most of the people at CPAM are human beings and the best approach is to try to co-operate with them so that you can overcome the hurdle together. Not to regard them personally as the hurdle that has to be overcome.
Most of the people at CPAM are human beings and the best approach is to try to co-operate with them so that you can overcome the hurdle together. Not to regard them personally as the hurdle that has to be overcome.
#12
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: South Charente
Posts: 546
Re: New angle on CPAM
A very sensible suggestion ET, thanks.
#13
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Dépt 61
Posts: 5,254
Re: New angle on CPAM
Or for a less sensible suggestion - buy an apostilled birth certificate from this little scammer, bless its little cotton socks
http://britishexpats.com/forum/franc...y-more-843592/
- not.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/franc...y-more-843592/
- not.
#14
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: SE Dordogne France
Posts: 982
Re: New angle on CPAM
That would fall under Accidents de la vie would it not and in any case if you had been here legitimately for 5 years you would have a right to health care regardless.
#15
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: 61 Normandy
Posts: 297
Re: New angle on CPAM
You are right, however under the accidents de la vie and 5 years residence conditions you would have the right to access CMU-B, which is contributory, whereas if the OP's spouse can get an S1 form in her own right then she would not need to pay the 8% contribution.