Mollanfamily

My first post on this site! Hello

As a family we are moving over to Normandy next Summer (2016), I am a nurse and training to do a TEFL course and my husband runs a business that he can run from France easily.

Our children will be 13, 9, 8 & 6 when we move, we are already taking French lessons as a family and the children are picking it up quicker than us!

My question is, does anyone have any experience of children settling into schools, my worry is for our eldest son who will be (already is) getting into that tricky teenage phase. We do have a history of moving, we have relocated from Scotland to England and we've all coped fantastically, the children have settled in very well to schools but we are under no illusions that moving to France will be very different.

Any positive experiences and any ideas that can make the transition easier also any pit falls to watch out for.

Thanks,
MollanClan

dmu

Hi, and welcome (again) to the forum!
The two main pitfalls are your eldest son and your OH's UK business.
As you've pointed out, 13 isn't easy at the best of times and, to be honest, it will be nigh on impossible for your eldest son to cope with "Collège", even with a year's tuition in French beforehand. He needs to master French Grammar, be acquainted with French culture (literature, history, etc...), and it might be best for him to go to an International School. He would also be thrown in at the deep end without friends to help.... The other three wouldn't have problems in Primaire where they'll pick up French Grammar and the rest in no time.
Some one will come along to advise about running UK businesses while being physically in France. It won't be as "easy" as you think! This will also determine your family's healthcare cover, unless you register as an Auto-Entrepreneur (whatever it's called nowadays) for your TEFL venture. As you are a nurse, you could get your qualifications validated in France (involving an exam in French) and be an Infirmière Libérale if, because of your family commitments, you wanted to avoid the long hours in a hospital.
Hope this has given you food for thought. Fore-warned is fore-armed!

P.S. You may do well to start a New Thread concerning your husband's business, as it was only mentioned briefly in the middle of a thread concerning education, and others in the know might have missed it.

Tweedpipe

Welcome to the forum.
I'll leave it to others more in the know concerning your husband setting up a business here. Depending on the chosen business regime, it could be relatively straight forward. Making a satisfactory living however, especially for a family of six(!), is a whole different bouilloire de poissons.

Regarding your children's education, I totally agree with DMU. For 3 of the children there should be no major problem.
However for the 13 year-old, I'd simply say - don't even consider it.* Not only due to the exceedingly difficult language assimilation, and associated education problems, but also for the high risk of uncontrolled stress, which can lead to a multitude of serious problems, which I won't dwell on here.
Some folks have succeeded with newly arrived 11 year olds - the age at which many start college. Those who attempt it with 12 year olds- especially very bright children - may also make it work - albeit not without a lot of very hard work and reinforced tuition.
If there are any forum readers here who have had children thrown into the French curriculum deep end at 13 years old and subsequently succeeded, I would dearly love to hear (*and proved wrong).

dmu

Yes, it would be useful info for others!
I forgot to mention that at 14 (normally), a collégien takes the Brevet (grammatical analysis among others, maths (à la française), and French History/Geography/"Education civique"). Without the Brevet, he/she can't go up to Lycée and consequently take the Bac. Without the Bac, no possibility of University.... It's possible to stay down a year and even two, but he wouldn't catch up much of the previous years' acquired knowledge unless he had private tuition.
A 13-year-old might not even shine in English, as he would need to know all the French Grammatical terms when English Grammar is explained, and translate English into correct French. Also, at 13, he will be learning a second European language (usually Spanish or German), with explanations in French....
I would also repeat that, without friends to help, he's not going to have much support from his French classmates, at least at the beginning, when he's also got to get used to the French Education System. And with the usual problems that teenagers suffer at the best of times, parents without French culture behind them and who can't communicate adequately with teachers, might find themselves at a loss on all counts.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I've seen this problem of language/culture/adolescents here, with "immigrant" families at my daughters' schools (luckily my two were born in France, but they had problems with their English teachers who were very wary of them, and didn't seem keen to meet me at the Parent-Teacher meetings!).
If there's an International School in your chosen area, then your son could continue the British Curriculum, which would solve the problem of his education, at least.

Mollanfamily

Hi

Thanks for your replies.

As for the business, this is something we've already arranged and sorted out but thanks for your thoughts.

Regarding our eldest son, he is our main concern, thanks again for your thoughts. We're heading back over in October and have an appointment with a school who seemed very positive about him so we'll see what they say and take it from there.

Thanks for your thoughts though

dennerlymum

HI
for your 13 yr old, it will be difficult, but it can be done! I know of a child here in toulouse area who did just that this year, just passing the brevet and being accepted into the lycee. However she had extra lessons at least twice a week all year and was prepared to really knuckle down. Having a 15 year old son I know he would not choose to go the extra mile, but then not all boys are the same

Good luck !

Mollanfamily

Thanks Dennerlymum, good to know that it can be done. We're currently looking into public schools with international sections and going over to view one in October to things are looking positive!! Thank you!

We'll take it step by step, nothing is ever easy but if we can negotiate the English admissions process when we moved from Scotland, we can do anything lol!!

Thanks again,
MollanFamily

fr29

Luckily even the french kids find school difficult so its not uncommon to retake the school year. My husband did when he was at school and he said there was no stigma attached....

On the bright side he ll ace the english class...also check out schools with an european programme...it mainly happens in private schools (not the same as uk private, normally they are run by catholic church and no need to be catholic only about 500 e a yr) as the french govt. did away with it in public schools this year.

If he is getting behind fight for extra help, its there for the taking, or maybe look on leboincoin for french lit / language classes for collegians...

On the plus side again your 13 yr old will get a more balanced and fairer education than in the UK.... i m embarrassed how little i was taught at school compared to my husband...

dmu

Surely you mean SOME French kids?
I agree that there's no stigma attached to redoing a year, but a foreign 13-year-old has no chance of catching up on the knowledge acquired by his peers during the earlier Collège years, as he would simply be relearning the same syllabus. He would have to be really motivated to spend all his free time being tutored in order to pass the Brevet.... One solution would be for him to start in 5ème (second year), but the age difference means that he would be much more mature than his classmates and it would be more difficult to make friends....
As mentioned earlier, he won't necessarily shine in English, since he wouln't have the French Grammar behind him to understand what the teacher is explaining. As the Oral is only important for the Bac, younger pupils aren't encouraged to speak foreign languages in class and, from experience, avoid speaking English like the plague and won't be inclined to try it out on a new classmate.
It'll be interesting, for future expats with adolescents, to hear how the OP's visit to the school goes next month. I won't mind if my understanding of adolescents turns out to be wrong!

homamarj

Hi there, we too are planning to move to Haute-Normandie in summer 2016. Its really useful to read all the info on moving with children. We have a 10 year old and a 2 year old, I have no worries about the little un but I am a little concerned about the eldest.

We have started language classes, although she is already pretty good as we have French friends and she loves to speak to them. Thanks for the heads up about the culture, I will get her some books and get her started.

Lots to think about but we are excited about our adventure.

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!
Your 10-year-old would normally start in CM2 (last year) Primaire, which would get her used to the French Education System before going up to Collège. Her teacher may be able to propose extra coaching if her French Grammar and Maths aren't considered adequate to cope with Collège.
You enrol at the Mairie, who'll allocate the nearest Primaire to your domicile if the Commune is large (otherwise, in a village, there's only one).
For the toddler, if your Commune is large, it may have an Halte-Garderie which looks after children up to 3 years old for a few hours from time to time, to allow Mums to do their own thing. Maternelle starts at 3 years old, but school isn't compulsory until Primaire, at 6.
If you have other questions (the usual suspects: work, healthcare coverage, taxes...), don't hesitate to start a New Thread!

Tweedpipe

I agree that here it's fairly common for kids to retake a school year, and pleased to hear that in the case of your OH (French presumably) that he was not unduly affected by this.
When this occurs with French children, being fluent in their mother-tongue they redo that same year over again, generally with no adverse affect. Indeed for the most part it's beneficial.
However with a 13 year old starting here from scratch with limited French, the stigma attached to dropping back a year is significantly compounded by the difficulties encountered in being thrown into the very deep-end without a life-jacket. Yes, he/she will try hard to swim, but will they survive? Often not! The workload is tremendous - have no doubts about that, and the accompanying stress factor for the child is one that parents should not underestimate. Ignore that particular issue at your peril.

Generally I don't disagree with this. But throwing in at the French deep-end at 13 years old or older, do so only after careful understanding of the high risk factors.

I should have added that one of our children, a good - but not outstanding scholar - was schooled in France at Maternelle, Primaire, Collège, and then Lycée, and was brought up with a tri-ligual education. Languages he always loved, and still does. At French Lycee, he was asked to redouble, and we went through a difficult time as he refused, loosing face completely and demanded to change Lycee. Which we did. He was then more relaxed, and happy, and then flew through the Bac. So when I hear one say that there is no stigma attached to re-doing a year over, that comment disturbs me. Children are all different, but they all get anxious over stressful circumstances, and when that occurs, especially in their teens - BEWARE! That's when the real life-disturbing problems can start.
Dare I remind again? Start French schooling at 13 years old? Don't even think about - unless your child has an exceptionally high IQ. Even then, many often unspoken complications can result.
To admirably quote DMU, "Forewarned is forearmed."

petitefrancaise

Like ?dennerlymum, I know of kids that came to France post age 11 and succeeded. However, both of us live(d) near Toulouse which has a huge anglophone/foreign population and the wonderful English 31 system where the kids (french and non-french) are at least bi-lingual.

dmu

Hi, just noticed your P.S.
I was thinking more along the lines of what French parents think about their children redoing a year. As far as I'm aware, there's no "what will the family/neighbours think" attitude, as it is so common. And the fact of redoing two Lycée years surprisingly didn't count against a young in-law being admitted into Prépa, and, even more surprisingly, he redid a Prépa year, but still passed the Concours for the Grande Ecole of his choice. No stigma attached, as far as l'Education Nationale is concerned....
Sorry, I wasn't thinking about how the child concerned coped, or not. The ones I know from my daughters' years, accepted it with resignation, and the above in-law had a "not to worry, it will all turn out right in the end" attitude.
Good to hear that your son sailed through the Bac in a different Lycée!