Styliko

Hello,

Thank you for letting me join this forum.

I am looking for advice. I shall tell you my background, could you please tell me if what I am doing is all above board. If not, tell me what I need to do to make it work.

Me and my partner are planning to move to France in October.
We are looking for a long term rental. We are both planning on being cross border workers, travelling weekly to and from France. 3 days working in the UK and 4 days living in France.
I was told a couple couldn't do this. One person must reside in France full time or we wouldn't be eligible for our CDS. Is this correct?
My understanding as cross border worker is that my UK company still pays my tax and I declare it annually in France.
Cross border workers should be able to obtain an S1 and then after 90 days of living in France apply for carte vitale but during this time pay for private health insurance.

Am I missing anything else?

Thank you for reading and I hope someone can help.

cyrian

Hi
Welcome to the forum.
What you have said is not quite correct.
"Partners" have no rights in France. Therefore what you say about one partner living in France is wrong.
In France, you would not be considered as "a couple".
You would both have to comply with French rules to qualify for French healthcare.
At the moment, you could work as a cross border worker but that may not continue into 2021.
Will the S1 continue from 2021?
Your employer may have to pay French social charges.
Getting a place to rent would need you to prove that you can afford the rent.
You need to show earnings 3x the rental and show bank statements and a P60 showing earnings and tax paid.
Read the FAQs at the top of the page.
HTH

dmu

+1
@ Stylico - Take a look at #21 in the above FAQs regarding cross-border commuters. As said, will the EU arrangement still apply after 1st January 2021?
France isn't a "partner-friendly" country and you would be considered as individuals, which is particularly important where Income Tax, healthcare coverage, renting, CdS, etc... are concerned. For renting, you would be considered as unrelated flatmates when applying for a rental, each having to provide all the documentation required. You would each apply for a CdS, with your respective justifying paperwork. To simplify the latter, make sure that Utility Bills are in both your names.
HTH, but you need to do more research, esp. concerning your respective employment status which in turn will govern your French healthcare coverage.

EuroTrash

What Cyrian and DMU said.
The "cross border worker" arrangement is an EU arrangement.
However, I believe it's been agreed in the WA that anyone who is already working on this basis before the end of transition, will be allowed to continue doing so for as long as the existing arrangement lasts (ie you couldn't change jobs and set up a new arrangement with your new employer, but you can keep working for your existing employer).

If you're both cross border workers before the end of transition you would both qualify for residence in your own right as individuals. That's probably better in any case than one of you qualifying and the other trying to piggyback.

As a worker you don't have to wait for 3 months to join the French healthcare system, that's only for inactifs, nor do you need private health insurance at any point - the UK remains responsible for your healthcare throughout, because you're working in the UK and paying NICs. As you say it issues an S1 (or whatever it's called for workers) which you register with CPAM as soon as you arrive.

The main thing that concerns me is whether HMRC will agree to class you as cross border workers on 4 days in France and 3 days in the UK. Have you run this past them and have they confirmed that three days work in the UK per week will be enough to qualify? Will you be working in France for the other 2 working days? because that could complicate things.

And of course there's the potential difficulty of getting a rental as a newbie to France with no French source of income, but you can cross that bridge if you come to it, there are other threads on here about that I think. But the first thing to do, if you haven't already, is to check that HMRC will issue you with S1s on the basis of being cross border workers because your whole plan depends on this..

Also you have to bear in mind that the commute soon gets to be a drag. It's tiring at the best of times, there can be delays in bad weather, plus with Covid-19 there may be all kinds of disruption, travel restrictions, quarantine requirements. It makes me tired just to think of it, but then I'm old and you sound like you're both still young so hopefully you're bursting with energy and ready to take on the world

Listen Very Carefully

ET has given a good run down of what you need to think about I will add four obvious practical problems all of which has been touched on briefly
1.The UK currently has a 14 day quarantine rule for people coming from France France is likely to reciprocate How would you overcome this? Answer -you will not so you will not be able to go to work and as COVID is on the rise....What about strikes bad weather etc
2.The chance of you getting a proper legal rental-which you will need to have to prove that you were resident in France prior to the end of the transition period is virtually nil I am afraid Even people with a French income struggle due to the hoops that landlords need you to jump through due to the renter friendly laws in France Could you afford to buy a small house and what area would you actually live in
3.I am sceptical as to whether you would get cross border worker status frankly if you are working part time in the UK and will the amount you bring in actually cover your costs? Be aware that France is not a cheap place to live
4 . Being."Partners" in France without a piece of paper ie marriage civil union etc brings about all sorts of practical problems including taxation wills and bureaucracy If you do move to France ensure that you get proper advice about inheritance and taxation as a non spouse non relative could pay 60% french inheritance tax

dmu

They are planning to take a long-term rental, but it's good to warn them, in case they buy property. Not only the surviving partner WOULD (not could) have to pay 60% inheritance tax if mentioned in a Will, but if they both die intestate, their individual share of the property would go to their respective next-of-kin, which makes for complications for the surviving partner....
@stylico - if you think you might buy property later, and aren't legally bound by then, you should consult a Notaire who will seek a solution in your best interests.

Styliko

Thank you everyone for your advice. I will go through this fully tomorrow and take everything into account.

Is being in a relationship with a partner a problem. Would it be more acceptable / easier if we were to marry?

Styliko

Hello, I did read that cross-border workers were exempt from quarantine.

Yes it will be quite a trek each week but I think it will be worth it in the end. Eventually we wanted to start up our own business and initially we wanted to do this before moving to France but we are having to speed things up due to lovely Brexit!

http://www.gov.uk/government/publica...k-border-rules

Styliko

I will be flexible to how many days I am allowed to work in the UK and stay in France. I was just using that as an example. I will do anything to make this work :-)

EuroTrash

- In your circumstances, I don't see it making a vast difference whether you get PACS'd or married to be honest. It you were to buy a house together or take on joint commitments or if one of you became reliant on the other it would be different, but it sounds as though you are pretty much two individuals with your own separate finances.

- Yes I also think that at present you would be exempt from quarantine but as we all know the rules can change overnight, depending on what the virus does in the countries concerned. You also have to bear in mind that you're probably not immune. Travelling has risks.

- Re getting HMRC to agree to issue the S1, I believe what happens is, they ask you or your employer to fill in a form giving details of your expected working pattern, and they assess this to see whether to accept your application or not. It's not a case of them telling you what to do, it's a case of you telling them what you're planning and they base their decision on that. Maybe you could have an informal chat with somebody at HMRC first?
Assuming they accept the arrangements I think they issue the S1 for 12 months and review it annually to see if the situation has changed, and each year when you fill in your UK tax form you'll have to fill in another form stating exactly where your working time was spent during the last tax year (make sure you keep records as you go along, it's a PITA trying to go back over the tax year afterwards if you didn't - ask me how I know).
HMRC can get arsey about cross border working, and I don't imagine they'll be any more flexible after Brexit. On the one hand they have to be convinced your work is well and truly UK based, and on the other hand they have to be convinced your lives are well and truly rooted in France. If they or France decides you basically live and work in France and pop over to the UK for a few days now and again, you won't be a cross border worker, your employer would be expected to register you as a French worker which would be a lot of hassle even if your employer agrees which most don't. If HMRC decides you still basically live in the UK and you pop across to France as a visitor for weekends, again you won't be a cross border worker. Do you own property in the UK that's not rented out?
What you suggest may be OK but it's HMRC's decision.
I totally understand how important this is to you, I hope it works for you.

Listen Very Carefully

Being partnered is not a problem socially but can cause legal and bureaucratic problems especially around inheritance and taxation as dmu has described
One question though-all of this seems to be dependent on you being able to go back to the UK to work Please think seriously about this question which is asked with the best of intentions(you will find I am a bit of a devils advocate) How indispensable are you to your UK employer? There is no doubt a huge recession is coming to the UK so will your job still be there especially if you cannot get back a couple of times because of bad weather or strikes? and how do you actually intend to get back? Fly/train/car if the latter you may need to re register any car you bring over
Have you got a Plan B? You briefly mentioned starting up your own business Is this something that would work in France?
I ask these things because they are things that you need to think about

Moses2013

You make some good points and how many people actually fail when they have plenty of time to plan. it's not just related to France but people are now rushing things and many will unfortunately end up losing all their savings. I remember in Jersey that you'd hear about some who wanted to live in France to avoid the high rental costs on the island but it never seemed to work out. Not only the time and costs but come winter the ferry was often cancelled.

EuroTrash

An infinitely better solution for the OP would be if the company would agree to them working most of the time from France, and put them on French payroll. But UK companies often won't do that because of the added expense, the more onerous legal obligations and the hassle of setting it up.
The transfrontalier arrangement was set up to simplify the admin for workers who live a short commute from their workplace but their commute happens to take them across a border, eg Switzerland/France, Belgium/Netherlands, NI/RoI. It was never really intended to encourage employees to live in a country that's way beyond daily commuting distance from their work. It can be shoehorned into shape and used to achieve that, but it's not a natural fit.

EuroTrash

I just re-read your first post and it occurred to me that whoever told you this, was probably thinking about the issue of supporting your claim to be resident in France, which I do think could be a problem.
Undoubtedly it would make your case stronger if you were married and one of you lived there full-time, because then you could claim France is your "foyer" or family home.
But it would mean losing one income and spending a lot of time apart, and it would potentially put a huge amount of strain on the relationship, there is a danger that the stay at home partner would feel bored and isolated and would resent the working partner's more fulfilling life, and the working partner would be stressed and tired and resent the stay at home partner's life of luxury.
But maybe one of you could commute and the other could make a start on setting up the business that you mentioned as a future plan?

dmu

Are they working for the same company? I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that they had different employers, since the OP said "my UK company", "my tax" and "I declare it". On the other hand, he wrote this without knowing about the "partner" status in France.... If there are two different employers, this adds extra complications.
(I, too, am playing the Devil's Advocate, as potential expats must be made aware of all the French quirks... I wish them both good luck! )