Novocastrian

I don't think it's been you under the magnifying glass, but rather your friend's version of what's happened. I'd emphasize the importance of getting a copy of her "charge sheet" and posting it on here in French, if the experts on the forum are to be able to really advise.

I wonder if she knows (or cares) that if she's ever paid NI in the UK she either is already or very soon will be, eligible for a state pension? This matters because then she could then be in the French S.S and Health system, which sounds to be very important in her circumstances.

Disclaimer: I'm not one of the experts.

jsbach

I'm not sure that she'll give me the charge sheet. She doesn't have a computer so couldn't scan it to send - and I'm sure she wouldn't post me the original. I'll try to get her to read it out to me over the phone (and hope that my French is good enough to get it right!)
She's aware of her UK pension entitlement (thanks to her daughter's research). Another factor in the equation is that her house is on the market, since she hopes to sell up and move back to the UK (as far as I know, it's been for sale for some considerable time).

Johann

Peabrain

Hello,

It is not impossible that if your friend went along to the Gendarmerie as she says and was clearly 'under the influence' the gendarmes would have breathalysed her if they had realized that she was intending to drive back home. The effects of drink aren't that hard to spot are they.
And I'd agree, having known a couple of alcoholics, that there comes a time when they don't care what happens, or may simply want to get themselves arrested with the idea that someone is going to take charge and look after them.
I can't sign off without an Inspector Maigret question; which part of France does she live in? You never know, some Samaritan might volunteer some help.
I'd still work on those that have a responsibility towards her and who are over in the UK. OK she's a pain, but she's still a human being, and somebody's mother.
All the best,
PB

jsbach

I've been wrestling with this - but, at the moment at least, I think I'd better not divulge the region. It may be that the police don't charge her with some of the things I've revealed on here (OK, I accept that's pretty unlikely) but I don't want to end up adding to her misfortune!

Johann

dmu

I was going to ask the same, but understand that a lurker on the forum might be tempted to interfere in bad faith...
Apparently the OP doesn't live near enough for face-to-face communication, which is a pity as I'm afraid a lot of important data might not get transmitted over the telephone line.
In any case the friend should take the charge sheet when she consults the Assistante Sociale at the Mairie. In addition to other help, the A.S. will assist her in finding an Avocat.

Garonne

But she won't get legal aid dmu if she can't provide an avis d'impot. It's such a bloody mess I wouldn't want to be in her shoes for all the tea in China.

dmu

No, I didn't mean that the A.S. would be able to obtain legal aid for her, but would help her to find an Avocat. Since the OP hasn't announced that she has looked for one, she needs some one to point her in the right direction. If her family doesn't pay the fees, then I don't know.
Hopefully she'll give ALL the data mentioned on the charge sheet and doesn't keep anything back. You can then assess the probable sanctions....

cjm

Like many not familiar with how French courts at 'magistrate' level process cases, is a 'list' with precis of a charge(s) published and made available on the day, as is the case in the UK? If a list is available, have searched but unable to discover anything, it may be this can be accessed remotely.

jsbach

I've spoken to my friend this morning, who's been told she must go to the Gendarmerie on 27th March to hear the charges to be laid. She was, as is often the case, very defensive about what else (if anything) was in the letter.
I spoke to her about being represented at the Gendarmerie. She simply didn't want to know. Again, this is symptomatic of her self-destruct mechanism which I described earlier.
Strangely perhaps, she's been told she can have her car back - but that it must be towed home because it's unroadworthy. She says she can't afford to have this done (but I would've thought she could have it towed by a friend using a car and tow-rope, rather than hiring a tow-truck).


Johann

dmu

Thanks for the update. Your friend has enough time to make a copy of the letter and post it to you. If not, and you yourself can't arrange to be at the Gendarmerie with her, then I'm afraid there's not much anyone can do to help....
P.S. If she has a friend on the spot to tow her car home, then surely he/she could be assisting her with all the rest?

bigglesworth

Johann

I am sure I speak for all here when I say:
If I get into trouble I hope I have as good a friend as you.

God bless you.

Peabrain

Hi,
She should be careful about leaving the car in the police pound. If it's been impounded then it is no doubt in the fourrière, and the longer it stays there, the more there will be to pay. Costs depend on the size of the town. As far as I can gather, the daily cost is only 6 euros, but there are other costs on top of that if the car stays in the police pound for more than 3 days. http://www.service-public.fr/actualites/001627.html
Frais de fourrière : quels tarifs pour les voitures particulières ?
It's probably a waste of time telling her, but she ought to be aware of this, since anyway she's bound to have a hefty fine to pay, at least.
Good luck,
PB

jsbach

Thanks for your lovely message, Bigglesworth.
In a way, I think it would be a mistake for her to get the car towed back, since I suspect she'd be tempted to drive it (another pointer to her state of mind).
If she leaves it impounded, will she pay fees no matter what happens, or will the car simply be scrapped/sold if she doesn't pay up? She's already told me she'd accept it being scrapped in lieu of payment. I suspect it has little value.

On a lighter note, I have personal experience of the fourriere. We had an aged Volvo which would be parked near Carcassonne airport for a couple of months at a time when we visited the UK. It was always, loyally, waiting for us when we returned - until -
they turned the scrubby area we left the car in into a smart new carpark, thus towing away our trusty steed.
The fee to get the car back from the fourriere was more than the car was worth but slightly less than the car parking fees they now charge.
That's what they call that poetic justice!

Johann

Garonne

No that isn't how it works here at all. There are no magistrates courts for criminal offences in France. They are all Tribunale d'Instance or Tribunal de Correction and are presided by the Judge, who is advised by the Procureur regarding sentence. Sometimes, but not always, there's a private pre-hearing meeting with the accused's lawyer, the procureur and the judge. In the courthouse it's extremely intimidating because all the 'accused' go into this vast court with all the lawyers and 'spectators' at the same time.

The charges she will face will be discussed between the Procureur (Prosecutor) and the Gendarmerie and the Procurerur will then decide which and how many offences she can be charged with. She will be signing for a Proces-Verbal on the 27th March issued by the Gendarmerie but naming the Prosecutor who has authorised it. It will give the date of the court case and list the charges. Johann, just write down the 'ART' (Article) numbers which will be ART.L234-1, 234-2, 224-12 for drink driving for example, L324-2 for no insurance, L325-1 à L325-3 for no MOT or Controle Technique, etc, etc.

Regarding getting an avocat I don't know how this is going to or can happen. Even those on legal aid who get a court-appointed avocat rather than their own private one have to get paid by someone. She will have to pay up front if she has no legal aid and no avis d'impot to prove that she has sufficient funds to pay the fees.

She will have to pay 90 euros for the court costs on top of any fines (reduced by 20% if paid within 1 or 2 months - sorry, cant' remember which).

If she is convicted for drink driving she will have to do an obligatory stage (2 day course) specifically for drink drivers at her own expense. This is around 250 euros. If she pays neither of these the huissiers will be instructed to recover posession to the value, along with any unpaid fines.

Her future is very grim. Any court case is bad enough if you are legally resident in France but in her situation I'm afraid I think it really couldn't be any worse, unless she'd injured a third person. She is facing:

The charge sheet may well only include all the driving related offences but it certainly won't stop there once they find out she's an illegal resident.

Garonne

Is the car at the police pound? If so, they will only allow it to be removed by a 'dépanneur' at her expense. She may be able to negotiate with a scrapyard to remove it for free and keep the vehicle but in its current state they're unlikely to do this, plus all scrapyards are legally required to complete the carte grise and send it off to the préfecture ... and she doesn't have one. Yet another problem to add to the growing list. It is unbelievable that she never thought of any of the ramifications of the way she's been living for the past 8 years and it is a terrible, terrible mess.