richarde3

Hello

My partner and I are planning a move to France from the UK. I would like to continue to work for my UK employer after the move, and as I currently work from home it seemed like it would be simple to just switch my location. Seems not however . . .

My current employer doesn't have a French office and have never addressed this issue before. They are looking at the possibilities of keeping me when I move away.

I did a bit of research but only found old information. Can anyone please tell me if the following are still true:

- Can I still get paid by UK employer and pay all my tax in France?
- Does the employer have to pay French employer's tax?
- Do they have to abide by French employment laws?

Any advice would be very welcome.

thanks
richarde3

EuroTrash

There's several threads on this if you google, and unfortunately it isn't that simple in practice.

Basically the answers to your questions are yes, yes and yes.

But you need to bear in mind that your employer will be paying French social security contributions on your salary, which are astromillions of times higher than social security contributions in the UK. That's usually the sticking point.

However, the site they need to register on in order to declare you as their employee to URSSAF is Urssaf.fr - Espace Employeurs
and you will find all the rules there, and the barème of social security cotisations in 2014 is here
Urssaf.fr - Espace Employeurs
It depends a bit according to your employer and your job but in general it works out at least 40 and 50 per cent of salary, bear in mind that this is what your employer will pay to URSSAF over and above your salary. So if you earn 1 000€ a month, your employer pays 1 000€ to you and 500€ or so to URSSAF. Then there are the deductions that you pay as employee, which are deducted from your salary.

It's no wonder is it that potential employers are so reluctant to take on staff in France, when you see how much it costs them.

What some people do is register self employed (auto entrepreneur) in France and bill their former employer as a client, this isn't legal as it is what's called 'concealed employment' but the chances of getting caught are fairly small. You would then pay your own social security contributions at probably around (depending on your activity) 25 per cent of the total amount you bill for.

Hope this helps.

richarde3

Many thanks EuroTrash for your reply and all the useful info. I guess I'll have to wait and see if my employer thinks I'm worth it!

Thanks again
richarde3

bigglesworth

Your other choice Richard is to see whether you can live in France but physically work in the UK in concentrated bursts. It takes some organisation and discipline, but plenty do it.
I did it for five years, first from Spain and then France. The travelling is a bit of a bind, but you grow to actually quite like Ryanair

richarde3

Thanks bigglesworth - I hadn't considered that option, so thanks for that. Perhaps if I get a "No" from my employer!

- not sure I could ever grow to like Ryanair though

richarde3

jvc

Hi Richarde3. I was in exactly the same position when i moved to France. My husband worked for a UK employer who DOES have a base in France but my employer didn't have a base here. My hubbie was accepted straight away onto the SS sysytem but because I was working for a UK employer I couldn't. There was no way round it for me, and as soon as I gave up work I was accepted straight away into the french system! Seems the system prefers you to be unemployed rather than pay your taxes fairly and hold down a steady job!!!! Sounds like your only option would be to commute, but wasn't a good option for me.

InVinoVeritas

+1

dmu

Hi, is your partner's employment sorted out or will he/she be looking for work?
If you aren't legally bound, then your partner wouldn't be covered by your healthcare coverage, whatever, and must look to organise their own.
You must also be aware of the high unemployment rate in France and that priority to any jobs going is given to equally qualified, probably bilingual, French candidates.
How is your respective French?
All the best, anyway!

EuroTrash

I'm not sure about this you know.
Rattachement d'une personne à charge en qualité d'ayant droit d'un assuré social - Service-public.fr
"Les personnes suivantes peuvent bénéficier de la qualité d'ayants droit :
...

personne vivant en couple sans être marié avec l'assuré (union libre ou pacte civil de solidarité (Pacs)) à condition d'être à sa charge effective, totale et permanente."

EuroTrash

Very beneficial as regards healthcare because both of you would be covered 'for free' by the good ol' NHS, you'd just have your mutuelle to pay for (if you decide to take one out). It would mean being dual resident as regards income tax which could be a wee bit of hassle but shouldn't make much difference at the end of the day. But what a lifestyle - too much like living to work and not enough like working to live for my liking.

dmu

OK, point taken! But surely the couple must give proof that they have been living together for a certain time, otherwise any one could claim to be an ayant droit?
I'm just being the Devil's Advocate where "partners" are concerned, as Property and Succession Laws are already so different in France and in fact, if the present couple are intending to buy property, then they should get advice from the Notaire on their respective protection.

richarde3

We aren't married or in a civil partnership, although have been living together for the best part of 18 years!! We do intend to buy, so I will research/get further advice about property and succession laws and whether we should be 'legally' hitched! So, thank you for that hint.

On the employment issue - it gets more and more complicated doesn't it? aND I thought the UK employment tax laws were complicated!! But, many thanks for all input guys - certainly lots to think about

EuroTrash

Well each person can only have one 'ayant droit' so that limits it for starters and they obviously have to share an address, and the ayant droit has to have no job nor health cover of their own and be dependent on the working partner. I imagine they check IDs and bank accounts but I don't think they actually hide cameras in the bedroom
AFAIK there is no qualifying period - from the time you start to 'vivre maritialement' as they so elegantly put it, you count as a couple as far as social security is concerned. I think the fact that a couple have arrived from the UK as an item to live here together would be well sufficient, no?

But definitely get at least a PACS if you intend to share a home in France. Living maritally isn't enough for inheritance tax laws - if there is no official relationship and one of you departs this life, the remaining partner will be classed as a non-relative and will pay 60 per cent inheritance tax on anything that they inherit. As opposed to 0 per cent if you are pacs'd. It's crazy not to.

Children, if either of you have any, are another issue.

All good fun, eh.

InVinoVeritas

That would practising kung Fu instead of sex would it?

EuroTrash

Perhaps you can combine the two.