jjmb

Today I received a text from my sister saying the UK solicitor dealing with our parents' French bank account needs even more information. This has been a nightmare since 2015 when my Dad had a stroke and had to return to England to stay with my sister while my Mum languished in a French nursing home until we found her a nursing home in the UK. As the house didn't sell for nearly 2 yrs (at a huge loss), we had to keep the bank account open. My Mum died in 2018, and we went to France to close down the bank account as they wouldn't do it over the phone or via letter. We had tried unsuccessfully once the house was sold and my Mum was still alive. We met with them with a friend who spoke fluent French as neither of us speak French and none of the bank staff, spoke English. We were assured that they had all the information necessary to close down the bank account and it would happen within 6 weeks.

Nope! There was still a standing order being paid out, something to do with a local tax agency, although we had to work that one out ourselves, as the bank wouldn't give us the information. As far as I am aware the standing order is still being paid out as my sister wrote to the French agency concerned and never heard back from them. On top of that, the bank changed its name and website, so we were effectively locked out of the account. Oct 2020 my Dad died. The solicitor my sister has hired seems to be useless. So it is now July 2022 and the bank account is still ******* not closed!

As I said to my sister via text, we will be paying more to the solicitor than the amount that is in the bank once this is resolved as there really isn't much in the account. Sorry for the rant, I am so tired of this. I had suggested a long time ago that a french notary would be a better option but the Solicitor told her, he could handle it. 😔😔
Sorry for the rant.

Helen1964

I can understand your frustration. It's probably no consolation now but you're right - it would definitely have been best to use a good notary (some of them are useless).

I wonder do people who move to France later in life stop to think for one minute about the headaches they're creating for their non-French speaking offspring if they die here or have to leave in ill health without tidying up their affairs.
French bureaucracy when someone dies is bad enough for the French never mind someone with no knowledge of the system and language.

Personally I think the best option for older people with offspring back in the UK but looking for an adventure is to rent in France and keep only enough money there to cover their living expenses.

Although even that might not help much because according to my notary, if the person is resident in France when they die, the long arm of the French taxman reaches out to encompass the deceased's worldwide assets, even if those assets are in the UK.

EuroTrash

Sympathy, yes bureaucracy can make you want to scream.
Although I have to say I don't think engaging a UK solicitor to deal with a French bank was a good move. I can't see a French notaire having a clue how to close a UK bank account, although in fact they probably would have said straight out That's not a thing i do, and not accepted the job. Which maybe your UK solicitor shouldn't have.
Would the notaire who dealt with the succession not have helped with this? although it's probably not much good saying that now.

France does have a way of coming back for more info after they have said they have everything they need. I suspect what happens is that a minion asks for a list of things and you provide them and the minion says, Right that's everything we need. Then the dossier is passed up the chain and the person who is actioning it says, This document is not self explanatory or That is odd and needs explaining. So the minion has to ask for more info.

Sorry can't offer any helpful advice apart from, try to research and get to the bottom of things as much as you can because getting the right answer in France depends very much on asking the right question to the right person. For instance if you don't really know what this "local tax agency" thing is all about, the person you wrote to may not have understood what your letter was about.

Helen1964

Out of interest, how easy is it to close a French bank account when you leave France to move back to the UK? Does anyone have personal recent experience of this?

Now that the French tax office has access to our account (gone are the days when we sent them a cheque - now they just dip in and take the money themselves) I can’t see our bank agreeing to close our main account until that direct debt arrangement with the tax office has been terminated.

But how and at what point does that happen? Once it’s established that you have no further tax liabilities, does the tax office allow you to terminate the direct debit?

Helen1964

Just discovered that I can apparently end the direct debit with the tax office myself at any time.
Am still not convinced though that our bank would simply close our main current account straightaway at our request if we moved to the UK.

EuroTrash

I cannot imaging that making the request is as simple as saying Please will you close our acount. No doubt it involves following a whole "procedure", filling in forms and providing justificatifs and waiting for checks to be completed...

Listen Very Carefully

As there were french assets then surely a notaire would have been a better option.Presumably a notaire had input at the house sale? if so then he or she should be the person to go to to sort this all out.
IMO it is not French bureaucracy that is the problem It only works according the rules laid down and you have to understand those rules and frankly how far you can bend them.That is why using a UK solicitor is just throwing cash down the drain.
You need a notaire they will know exactly what to do

dmu

Hi, sorry I can't add more to the others' comments, except to ask whether the "local tax agency" (the Tax Office?) was informed of the decease within a few weeks, enclosing a Death Certificate. Did your sister write to them by mail or snailmail? Administrations are well known for not replying to mails....
Hope you sort this out soon - as said, French Bureaucracy is difficult enough for French people to cope with....

Helen1964

If there’s really not much money in the account, I would just cut my losses now. Tell the solicitor to take no further steps and send you the bill for their work to date.
Let the French bank and tax office sort out the mess themselves.

EuroTrash

The account will have to get closed eventually though otherwise the bank will keep deducting fees and charges forever and you could end up owing them.
Probably you're past caring and possibly they would never take any action, but usually it's better all round to tie up loose ends, then you can draw a line and forget about it with a clear conscience and you know it won't pop up again a few years down the line.
Have to say ​​​​​​I tend to go along with LVC when he said

Listen Very Carefully

Yes there are various important documents that a notaire will give you on a house sale and when a person dies in France.Banks insurance companies mutuelles government offices etc etc will all expect to see some or all those bits of paper and frankly unless the solicitor has lived in France and dealt with the French and understands what and why it is required you are on a hiding to nothing Sorry to say that it is probably what you do not want to hear but perhaps you can get your sister to read this thread

dmu

From experience, the Notaire only steps in after a death, to deal with the Succession.
It's up to the next-of-kin to inform all the above institutions, not to mention the Social Security, Pensions, Utilities, Water, even subscriptions to magazines, otherwise automatic transfers of money will continue. Do the amounts withdrawn by the local tax agency concern Water? Even without consuming any, there's always the "abonnement" to pay....
@jjmb As suggested, maybe your sister could read this thread and you can come back with more precise details....
HTH

jjmb

Thanks for all the advice and for excusing my little rant. If this time around doesn't work, I will try to find a notaire to deal with it but it is hard to do it from the USA. Haven't been back in the UK since 2019 and had to miss my Dad's funeral in 2020. The problem is that my sister was named as the executor as Dad lived with her, whereas I was the one who was appointed as my parent's agent by the bank as it was me who flew over to France when they became ill. It will be resolved eventually but it's definitely a lesson on how not to do things if you move to a country where you don't know the language or legal system, especially if your children are spread around the world!.