modernexplorer

Hi all,

My OH is going to qualify as a teacher in the UK and we're looking at moving to France soonish. We're wondering if anyone here works as a teacher in a school (not a school for learning English, but either French or English language schools) and can provide an insight into that profession in France.

In the UK teachers are increasingly overworked and underpaid, and the holidays end up being used to mark work and prepare for lessons etc. We're wondering whats it's like in France.

Probably not looking at inner city schools, remote is ok, French is fluent, would teach primary or secondary, particularly interested in typical working hours and annual leave offered.

Thanks!

EuroTrash

I believe you need a French teacher qualification to work in state schools but not in non state schools.

The big difference is that in France, state teachers are classed as civil servants. This has advantages of course, but it also means that you have to go where you're posted, which could be anywhere in France, and you can be moved at any point if the education authority decides to move you. It's not at all like in the UK where all job vacancies are advertised and you keep applying until you get one you fancy and then you accept it. So unfortunately it's quite common in France for "new" teachers to be sent to the less desirable posts first, and as their career progresses they get sent to better schools. Eventually they might secure tenure, which is a great milestone for a teacher because it means they can't be moved again, not unless they themselves want to move; not all teachers achieve that.

At least that's how it used to be until quite recently. I know there have been various changes made to fonctionnaire work arrangements so check it out but AFAIK it hasn't changed significantly.

That's the most radical difference to take onboard. As regards salary, there is info here for instance La rémunération des enseignants - Ministère de l'Éducation nationale
As for all civil servant posts it depends on how high up the tree you are in terms of passing exams and moving up to the next grade, and how long you've been in service.

In the private sector I think it works pretty much as it does in the UK, jobs are advertised and you apply.

modernexplorer

Oh wow, that's really helpful, thanks.

I couldn't find any info online about how much of the school holidays the teachers tend to get as annual leave, and whether holidays end up being used to make up for the workload by over stretched teachers.

Any insight there?

EuroTrash

Google will be your friend if you ask. Google something like "enseignants heures de travail" and you will find plenty of reading material. Eg this looks very informative https://blog.francetvinfo.fr/l-insti...fs-chiche.html - it's a fairly recent blog that discusses exactly this question. From what the article says, secondary teachers' working hours are fixed by government decree at the 1607 hours per annum which is the norm for civil servants, and the blog then explains how this is broken into contact hours, preparation hours etc and goes on to discuss whether the theory works or not and how fair a deal teachers get at the moment.

I don't know whether either of you has lived/worked in France before, but if not you do need to prepared to find that the whole mindset is rather different from in the UK.

EuroTrash

I'm saying all this to help answer your questions, but I'm not sure how useful any of it is. What subject is your OH training to teach? I don't really see him/her going straight into a career in a state secondary school because how realistic is it to expect a teaching certificate from the UK to equip you for preparing kids for the French bac. The curriculum is different, a lot of subjects are taught very differently and the standard expected is different. For instance there is a lot of stress on methodology - you learn the methodology, then you keep practising and developing your skills until you can apply it perfectly, for instance to produce a model essay on any given subject with the right balance of arguments and counter arguments and quotations and references etc. I don't think that's how teachers are trained to teach in the UK.

I think (s)he would be better advised to look for jobs in private schools, and the contracts there will be tailored to the needs of that particular school in terms of hours, pay etc.

cyrian

Hi
I am not up-to-date with this but previously I knew many young french teachers who came to the UK to teach because the pay was better.
In addition, as ET has said, the new teachers are sent to the poorest areas ( I hesitate to call them ghettos) anywhere in France.
HTH

dmu

Reconnaissance diplôme étranger / documents délivrés | CIEP

gives info on recognition of foreign diplomas.
Last century, you had to be of French nationality to teach in State schools, but I believe that EU citizens are now accepted, provided they meet the conditions. In which case you'd best research and act quickly, with only 1 year to go before D-day....
As said, new teachers are usually sent to ZEPs (Zones d'Education Prioritaires), of which the "93" (N.E. Paris suburb) probably heads the list...
Good luck!

EuroTrash

Interesting point.
If an EU citizen starts working as a fonctionnaire, and subsequently becomes a non EU citizen, can they continue being a fonctionnaire? Poses a bit of a conundrum because on the one hand France is committed to not letting Brexit disrupt people's lives, but on the other hand the policy of restricting civil service positions to French and EU citizens is pretty much set in stone. Hmm.

guillaumehefty

Even if you're a non EU citizen, you still can be a teacher in France but maybe only in private schools. I used to be in a private school when I was like 13, and my English teacher (I'm french) was from the US.

I don't know about how it really works in the UK, but in France, there are 3 levels (if I can call it like this) of teacher, the "instituteurs", for the kids, the "enseignants" until the BAC, and then, if you keep going on your studies, there are teachers but only for the university.
The fact is, for some different reasons, not only "Fonctionnaires" (civil servants) are allow to work there. You still have the difference between private and public schools, but for both of them you can work in as a professional. A lot of private business school are looking for teachers, specifically foreign languages teachers.

Maybe it will help you (I'm a bit sorry for my English, I hope it was clear!)

dmu

I read this on a French forum in one of the results of a search which led to my above link, but can't find it again! The posters sounded convinced, but it obviously wasn't official and they may have been talking about private schools, after all..
Interesting point about a future ex-EU citizen, as you say....

Alexander79

Hi

you can find a job in private school .I think it's better because the parents pay for the serious.And are behind their children.In the public school sadly it's not ever case.

And there is no difficult competition to return look :

indeed and pôle emploi professeur anglais

Tweedpipe

I absolutely disagree with the statement that parents are never behind their children in public schools here. Ourselves and many in the parents association we knew were totally behind their children.
And on the other side of the coin, ironically I know of a number of cases where parents were paying high fees for their children in non-public schools here, and at one time there were serious drug-related problems in the same establishment. Not exactly what I would call parents being behind their children, if they are not vigilant and aware of drug-related tell-tale signs.

dmu

+1
All our daughters' respective pals' parents were behind them (not to mention us for ours).