dmu

No, not Jacques Brel in that marvellous film, but Prés. Macron!
Is any one else uncomfortable with the use of "p**s off" to translate emmerder? To me, it's simply "bother" or "be a nuisance to" the non-vaccinated and, to split hairs even more, he "would like to/feels like", not "wants" to do so. Whoever did the media's translation could have done better....
Must admit that I was surprized at the President's/possible Presidential Candidate's language, and think that he took a calculated risk in using such a term. Those rebels who are already emmerdés by the present regulations wouldn't have voted for him anyway, so he won't have lost any votes. And IMHO I believe that he said out loud what the majority of vaccinated people think in silence, and might win a few extra votes.... (assuming he'll announce his candidacy, of course!)
(I was a "rebel" at the beginning, but was brought to reason in time by my MT....)

Jon-Bxl

Funny, I was going to post exactly the same sentiments right now.

I was initially amazed to hear this, coming from a seasoned politician, then realised that it was a vote winning strategy. For the same reasons you mentioned. And in the attached article.

I also questioned the translation of "p**s off" from none other than France24!
https://www.france24.com/en/france/2...t-swing-voters

In an earlier article they also wrote ( I'm quoting here so sorry for the bad language, its not mine) "The expression Macron used – "emmerder", literally, to put in the "merde" (shit) – can also be translated as "to cause trouble" for someone (embêter), according to French dictionary Larousse. "

So I think France24 is being a bit sensationalistic..

We had drinks with an antivaxer yesterday. The French cafe was empty, he was really upset to have been turned away from all the cafes in town. (The bar was taking a risk to get his money) He hates Macron now.... But never would have voted for him before anyway.

Jon

EuroTrash

I agree it's a bad translation.
Emmerder is a difficult word to translate, but in a sensitive context like this I think using a loaded expression like "to piss off" is unjustifiable.
But that happens a lot, there were loads of examples of biased translations of Barnier's speeches during the Brexit negotiations.

EuroTrash

I don't usually do cross-forum posts but was discussing this same issue elsewhere so I will basically "borrow" my post from there, rather than rewrite the whole thing again in different words. Apologies to anyone else who visits both places .

Funnily enough, just the other week I was scratching my head over how to appropriately translate "emmerder". It was an interview with an eminent French financier about various banking issues and scandals, for a certain glossy English language magazine, and the financier kept explaining how various players in the financial sector were "emmerdé" by the ever-tightening regulations and checks on this that and the other. What he meant was that certain regulations made life harder for them/gave them extra hassle/gave them hoops to jump through/cramped their style. It wasn't just a case of pissing them off and I couldn't have used that in any case because he was a solemn, dry old stick, there was nothing in the least colourful about his language and if he'd been an English speaker I'm sure he wouldn't have used the expression "to piss off" in a formal interview. In the end I mostly put "inconvenienced" or "frustrated" which weren't perfect translations but I felt they conveyed the meaning and didn't sound out of place.
So for me, in this somewhat sensitive context that's a bit of a naughty translation.

Listen Very Carefully

This is exactly why it is so difficult to use things like Google translator So much depends on context and cultural references
How would put into French-I am really pissed off now-or -You can piss off right now
Same two words different meanings
But some UK newspapers described it as a "foul mouthed rant"-No prizes for guessing which ones...

EuroTrash

I guess the same ones that thought Johnson's "**** business" was a brilliant response...

cyrian

I have seen Macron's speech translated as "annoy the non-vaccinated" but I feel that it is a bit stronger than that because he wants to do more than "annoy" them.
He wants to make life more difficult in order that more people get vaccinated.
Perhaps the "p**s off" translation is closer to his intended meaning.
Personally, I avoid using swear words in French.
As LVC has indicated, the context can change the sense and the strength (mildly funny to very offensive) of the expression.
Having had contact over many years with French people living in the UK, I have heard them misjudge the strength of those words when used inappropriately.
One French woman who had lived in the UK for over 30 years shocked her UK husband when she used an English swear word in a way that he found inappropriate.
I am frequently amazed when I check the meaning of French words to find that there can be several very different meanings depending on the context.

EuroTrash

For me, saying p'd off misses the point here.
You can get p'd off about all kinds of things that don't emmerde you. If you're a cricket fan you might well be p'd off that England have been so wet in the Ashes but you wouldn't be in any way "emmerdé" unless their poor performance caused you hassle in some way, for instance it you'd bet money on them winning.
Manny's point is that he wants to create hassle for them so that they feel the need to "se démerder", specifically by getting their jabs.
Whereas, if you say you're p'd off it often has a kind of finality about it, you're annoyed about a situation but it's beyond your control and you will have to accept it, you're just making your feelings known. That is not what he wants people to do.

cyrian

Sometimes you don't get an exact translation but perhaps "annoy the s**t out of them" would fit.

EuroTrash

Thinking about this Charles Aznavour song and wondering if it would have become such a classic if the public had interpreted the title as meaning "My 5h1ts".
I do think "emmerder" and "emmerdes" have moved quite far away from their association with the word merde.

cyrian

Yes as I said above, I am often surprised at the very different meanings given for a French word.
I think that Charles Aznavour was referring to "troubles" which obviously does not fit Macron's expression.

EuroTrash

But I think that is exactly what Macron meant. Trouble, hassles, complications, difficulties to negotiate. Macron wants to make life more difficult for those who arent vaccinated.

G-J-B

The word is stronger than 'annoy' or 'bother', so I'd go with this one or even the original translation. In context I believe it's because some people who need major surgery keep having operations postponed because it's largely the unvaccinated taking up the beds, so a cry of frustration perhaps? It was obviously well rehearsed what he was going to say beforehand. I don't think it's a black and white issue either, despite the media and some politicians seeming to think everyone falls into one of two camps.

EuroTrash

There's lots of articles about this now - I found these two interesting, for instance
https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/entry/...b0bcd21959223f
https://www.ouest-france.fr/politiqu...4-b4d1ef042f8f

I still incline to the view that for a person who doesn't understand French, reading it as "to pi55 off" would give a partial understanding.

Many of us probably found it very emmerdant to have to obtain a new CdS after Brexit. Saying we were p'd off wouldn't have told the full tale; we may have been but the reason we were p'd off was because of the hassle it caused us. Emmerdes aren't necessarily introduced solely in order to p155 people off. In this case Macron wants to give them hassle/put obstacles in their way because he is hoping that the hassle of not being able to go to restaurants or the cinema or travel on main line trains will make them get their jabs. The closest translation for "to p155 them off" is "les faire chier". That's the same level of vulgarity and conveys the same meaning, and faire chier completely loses the sense of, putting obstacles in their way for a purpose. But as I understand it, that's not what he said. Although now it seems that some French media are quoting him as having said 'faire chier", and if they are misquoting that is very naughty.

Jon-Bxl

What I found interesting is that I was quoting the English version of France24. People who do have an excellent command of English. My French isnt as good as their English, but I felt that po'd wasn't a valid translation.

Its why I suggested that France24 was being 'sensationalist' .... lets face it, not unusual for some newspapers/journo's!

Jon