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Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Old Feb 5th 2018, 11:34 pm
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Default Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Hi,

My name is Ben, and I have had enough of my silly government and have decided to relocate permanently to France and exit Brexit.

My plans needs details and advice to fill in some of the blanks. But first, a bit of a fact dump about me and what I am trying to do:

I work in IT. I have an existing UK Ltd company with trading history (currently mothballed).

I am happy to register a French company or be Self employed. The plan is effectively work for myself as software developer. I have sufficient funds to cover my costs. I am planning to rent. I was hoping I could simply work from home, I would note have customers or deliveries to the apartment as everything is done over the Internet.

The ultimate goal after five years is to achieve French citizenship (dual as plan to also retain UK).

I understand I need to register when I arrive and this can start counting towards by residency obligations.

I believe I need to have private medial insurance to cover myself - currently with BUPA but I can change that as needed.

I will be taking my dog with me, he already has his passport and rabbies shots all upto date. I am a little worried about how open to dogs (small Beagle sized) landlords will be?

Any and all advice people could offer on anything I need to setup from a resident registering / social insurance / tax number / bank account / legal / company / company as owned subsidiary of UK company or independent / self employed / tax / insurance / dogs / renting? Anything I need to be thinking of and am likely to forget. I am happy to structure my affairs however they are best organised to be achieved.

I have provided 2 months notice to my employer and am looking to have located to France (Mulhouse probably) for 1 June. I plan to rent my UK residence after getting permission from mortgage provider.

Please help and any and all advice very gratefully received.

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regrds

Ben
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Old Feb 5th 2018, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

I will also have a read through the FAQ section.

TIA

Ben
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 6:23 am
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Hello Ben

Welcome to the world where Brexit doesn't matter!

Just a couple of points to clarify from what you posted:

Firstly, since you're starting a business here you won't need private medical insurance since you'll be paying contributions to the French health service via your earnings. You'll be covered as soon as you start your business. Healthcare is good in France, however treatment is not free at the point of delivery. So people take out top up insurance to cover the costs that aren't met by the state (for most medical care the state covers 70% of cost). Top up is often called 'mutuelle' because it's generally obtained from mutuelle insurance companies, and you can choose what level cover you want, from basic hospital-only to full bells and whistles cover that pays for dental, optical, specialists, just about everything. I imagine top level cover will still be cheaper than BUPA.

For setting up your business you have a choice of many business structures. Many are quite complex, but there is a simplified option called micro entrepreneur. On micro, all deductions are calculated as a percentage of turnover, so there's very little accounting involved. Allowances are built in to the scheme so for that for a typical business with average expenses, deductions on micro calculated as a % of turnover will work out the same as deductions on another regime calculated as a % of profit. So, if your expenses and overheads are lower than average for your category, micro could be a good option for you; if they're higher than average, it wouldn't. But I would encourage you to go and talk to your chamber of commerce or whatever other local business support services there are near you, once you're here, and get all the free start-up advice you can. Choosing the right business structure is important.

Once your business is set up, you'll get your social security number and the rest of the issues on your list will start to fall into place. Although it won't help with the dog. You don't need to register when you arrive, there is no system for registering, but once you sign a rental contract you can use that as proof of when you arrived. Or the date your business was registered. At the UK end there is a form you fill in to inform HMRC of the date you left.

Renting might take perseverance, try Airbnb if all else fails.

Also you need to be prepared to pay a lot more in social security here than you probably do in the UK. For instance on the micro scheme, this would be a little over 20% of turnover, or otherwise allow for around 40 / 45% of profit. Which makes it harder to compete in the UK market against UK-based freelancers.

Anyway, most things are covered in the FAQs so happy planning, and we hope you come back with any questions, or with progress reports to help others doing the same.

Last edited by EuroTrash; Feb 6th 2018 at 6:27 am.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 7:08 am
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Hello Ben

Welcome to the world where Brexit doesn't matter!

Just a couple of points to clarify from what you posted:

Firstly, since you're starting a business here you won't need private medical insurance since you'll be paying contributions to the French health service via your earnings. You'll be covered as soon as you start your business. Healthcare is good in France, however treatment is not free at the point of delivery. So people take out top up insurance to cover the costs that aren't met by the state (for most medical care the state covers 70% of cost). Top up is often called 'mutuelle' because it's generally obtained from mutuelle insurance companies, and you can choose what level cover you want, from basic hospital-only to full bells and whistles cover that pays for dental, optical, specialists, just about everything. I imagine top level cover will still be cheaper than BUPA.

For setting up your business you have a choice of many business structures. Many are quite complex, but there is a simplified option called micro entrepreneur. On micro, all deductions are calculated as a percentage of turnover, so there's very little accounting involved. Allowances are built in to the scheme so for that for a typical business with average expenses, deductions on micro calculated as a % of turnover will work out the same as deductions on another regime calculated as a % of profit. So, if your expenses and overheads are lower than average for your category, micro could be a good option for you; if they're higher than average, it wouldn't. But I would encourage you to go and talk to your chamber of commerce or whatever other local business support services there are near you, once you're here, and get all the free start-up advice you can. Choosing the right business structure is important.

Once your business is set up, you'll get your social security number and the rest of the issues on your list will start to fall into place. Although it won't help with the dog. You don't need to register when you arrive, there is no system for registering, but once you sign a rental contract you can use that as proof of when you arrived. Or the date your business was registered. At the UK end there is a form you fill in to inform HMRC of the date you left.

Renting might take perseverance, try Airbnb if all else fails.

Also you need to be prepared to pay a lot more in social security here than you probably do in the UK. For instance on the micro scheme, this would be a little over 20% of turnover, or otherwise allow for around 40 / 45% of profit. Which makes it harder to compete in the UK market against UK-based freelancers.

Anyway, most things are covered in the FAQs so happy planning, and we hope you come back with any questions, or with progress reports to help others doing the same.

I'd just add that your future landlord must give written permission to use his/her premises as your registered business address. Leases normally include a clause expressly prohibiting commercial use.
As indicated in the "Renting" thread in the FAQs, a French landlord will normally require proof (by payslips) that your regular income is 3-4 times the rent, failing which you'd need a Guarantor.
On the canine front, you may strike lucky and find a tolerant landlord if you rent a house with a garden, but an appartment block will probably have rules and regulations regarding pets. The landlord must know about your dog before a lease is signed....
Don't hesitate to come back with further questions!
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Hi Ben,
It is not just the UK that has a silly government.
France has had its own fair share.
IMHO France is currently going through the de-industrialisation that the UK went through decades ago. While the current President is trying to address this - let's see what happens.
Unemployment in France is twice that of the UK - especially youth unemployment.
The point I am making is that the grass is not always greener.
Good luck with your move.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by cyrian
Hi Ben,
It is not just the UK that has a silly government.
France has had its own fair share.
IMHO France is currently going through the de-industrialisation that the UK went through decades ago. While the current President is trying to address this - let's see what happens.
Unemployment in France is twice that of the UK - especially youth unemployment.
The point I am making is that the grass is not always greener.
Good luck with your move.
Very true.
The mindset is different and the problems are different. Theresa May and her government seem to have developed tunnel vision and stuck their fingers in their ears and they don't do anything about the UK's problems, Macron is going at reforms like a bull in a china shop and it remains to be seen whether he'll end up creating different problems. But I think you have to admire Macron whereas I find it very hard to admire May. Macron is transparent (up to a point) and willing to stand up for what he believes in, engage in dialogue with his opponents and take responsibility for his decisions. If it all goes belly up, at least he will have given it his best shot.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Hi again, I've just reread your first post, and I missed a few points.
Any particular reason for "probably" moving to Mulhouse? AFAIK there aren't all that many BE members in Alsace, but most advice here on living in France is applicable nationwide (apart from a few quirky aspects relating back to when Alsace-Lorraine was German).
If you rent out your UK property, you must declare it, and any other worldwide income, in your French Tax Declaration.
Do you speak adequate French to cope with all the Bureaucracy that you're going to encounter?
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

You have been given some excellent advise here - as always.
Imho the least of your problems on moving here will be to find a landlord who accepts your dog. Over the years and renting several times in different cities we've never had a problem with getting our dogs accepted prior to signing the rental agreement.
However once you are established, don't be surprised at the social charges you will be obliged to pay, often a kick-in-the teeth when compared to outgoings charged in the UK.
And I should add that anyone planning to uproot to France, and having budgeted living expenses based on 2017 available info, should be well aware of surprises.
Our income tax for 2017-18 has increased although having declared less revenue than 2016/17.
We have also just recently received the bill after having re-filled the below-ground gas citerne, 300€ more than a somewhat similar quantity this time last year. And I note that gas charges were again increased from 1st Feb 2019, although we were invoiced mid Jan. Mme TweedP came off the phone fuming with rage after speaking with a company representative about the invoice. She got no sense during that call and asked for a responsible marketing individual to call back - which they said they would. That was 2 days ago and we've heard nothing since. She plans to call them again tomorrow - I plan to be out then as my ears tend to be extremely sensitive these days.........
Insurance premiums too, seem to escalate from year to year, and 2018 will certainly be no exception due to the terrible floodings in over 23 departments, and shocking increase in the number of voluntary car-torchings, well over 1000 for the 1st Jan 'celebrations' alone.
I'm biting my tongue now in saying that I don't believe that France has a 'silly' government this time round, although it would be very true to say that there are many parliament members that are very inexperienced - a conscious choice by Macron, and only time will tell if this was a wise decision. Needless to say there is still much social unrest in France, and although very different to UK, I hesitate to say that the grass here is greener. In fact I've been patiently awaiting for a positive change in that green tint since moving back here 14 years ago. As my French wife frequently reminds me, in general the French appear to be largely ungovernable - whichever party is in power.
Good luck with your plans & decisions.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Nice to meet you Ben!

When looking to setup a business alone, there are two possibilities available to you:

Applying in your own name (either as an individual business or a micro-enterprise)

OR

Creating a one-person company (either as an EURL – a one-person limited liability company or a SASU – a simplified shareholder company)
The Micro-Enterprise

From the 1st of January 2016, the status ‘auto-entrepreneur’ has changed to ‘micro-enterprise’. In effect, individual entrepreneurs under the micro-fiscal regime regarding tax on revenue are now automatically subject to the micro-social regime regarding social contributions.

In the frame of the law on modernising the economy (LME), the status ‘auto-entrepreneur’ refers to individual entrepreneurs or those who wish to have additional business activity and it was created on the 4th of August 2008.

The micro-enterprise plan applies as long as the CAHT (chiffre d’affaires réellement encaissé au cours de l’année civile) does not exceed the threshold of €82,200 for sales activity or €32,900 for service provision and freelancers (or independent professionals).

Hope that helps!
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 2:47 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
... As my French wife frequently reminds me, in general the French appear to be largely ungovernable - whichever party is in power. .....
"How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?"

- Charles de Gaulle
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 2:57 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by samheddens
Nice to meet you Ben!

When looking to setup a business alone, there are two possibilities available to you:

Applying in your own name (either as an individual business or a micro-enterprise)

OR

Creating a one-person company (either as an EURL – a one-person limited liability company or a SASU – a simplified shareholder company)
The Micro-Enterprise

From the 1st of January 2016, the status ‘auto-entrepreneur’ has changed to ‘micro-enterprise’. In effect, individual entrepreneurs under the micro-fiscal regime regarding tax on revenue are now automatically subject to the micro-social regime regarding social contributions.

In the frame of the law on modernising the economy (LME), the status ‘auto-entrepreneur’ refers to individual entrepreneurs or those who wish to have additional business activity and it was created on the 4th of August 2008.

The micro-enterprise plan applies as long as the CAHT (chiffre d’affaires réellement encaissé au cours de l’année civile) does not exceed the threshold of €82,200 for sales activity or €32,900 for service provision and freelancers (or independent professionals).

Hope that helps!
Welcome to the forum.
Are you sure your figures quoted in the last paragraph are currently correct?
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by samheddens

The micro-enterprise plan applies as long as the CAHT (chiffre d’affaires réellement encaissé au cours de l’année civile) does not exceed the threshold of €82,200 for sales activity or €32,900 for service provision and freelancers (or independent professionals).
Careful - the threshold was doubled as from 1.1.18
https://www.service-public.fr/profes...sdroits/F23961

"... les plafonds du régime micro-social sont relevés � 170 000 € pour les activité de vente de marchandises et 70 000 € pour les prestations de services."

Lesson for the OP - the rules here change so fast it's hard to keep up, so make sure you get your info from the most up to date sources. The government website is best IMHO because it's kept bang up to date.

But @samheddens, welcome to the forum and I see you have the good taste and judgment to also live in Normandy, like me an' Novo (where's Novo, he hasn't stuck his oar into this thread yet!)

Last edited by EuroTrash; Feb 6th 2018 at 3:06 pm.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 3:02 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by Pulaski
"How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?"

- Charles de Gaulle
I love that quote.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 3:14 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by Pulaski
"How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?"

- Charles de Gaulle
Without wishing to split hairs, I've always heard it's 365 different types of cheese...
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: Leaving UK for France, advice and guidance please

Originally Posted by dmu
Without wishing to split hairs, I've always heard it's 365 different types of cheese...
The more reputable sites on google seem to agree that CdG actually said 258.
But I expect they've invented more since his day.
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