Roger O

Should British pupils give up studying French?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11086381
Does this mean a potential general exodus of ex-French teachers in this direction?

cjm

I resemble that story. Is there not a surfeit of ex-teachers here already, tho not necessarily French teachers. They could help us old gits that opted out of French when we had the chance, but now regret the, then attitude of 'wot do I wanna lern that for?'. After all we even have a Brit version of La Marseillaise.

Like many I now struggle to become reasonably proficient. Why? Cos it seems rude to live in a country and not offer the courtesy of speaking the language. And, I find more and more that my French neighbours have something to say to me, that I want to hear and understand.

Nice post Roger.

le plumber

I'm completely fluent in French, and I have no typical english accent - I have a slight accent but people tend to think I come from Alsace or from Belgium. I didn't take French at school and thank God I didn't because I wouldn't have been able to learn to the same standard. I learnt German 5 years at school, and when I was in the army but apart from asking for a lemon tea with my bratwurst I'm bloody useless.
I saw a mock A level French exam the other day, and my niece said that she was lucky because the real one was easier - WTF?? Most of it was multiple choice and I actually thought that it was GCSE level!!

If you want to learn the language properly, there is no better way than in the country itself. It's certainly not in a boring classroom.

cyrian

Welcome back Roger!
The french have the same problem.
The older generation claim that they were taught to read and write english but not taught how to speak it. Therefore they have no confidence and much prefer to let me speak in french (badly) than attempt anything more than the occasional word or phrase. We are friendly with a french couple (retired) who are currently paying a teacher to teach them english - but they wont speak to us in english. They are too embarrassed that they will make fools of themselves.
The younger french generation however seem to be getting a good quality of teaching in spoken english with reasonably good pronounciation and are comfortable to speak with us in english.
I speak french better than most of the french I meet can speak english but no thanks to my school - ok I accept a big chunk of the blame for that - but it is because I made the choice later in life.
I agree with cjm - it is up to me to make the effort.

dennerlymum

teaching english to lots of people, I agree that the older generation are excellent at grammar, reading and writing in english but appalling at spoken english! However I find that after an introduction to the training by my good self in french, they soon realise that 'a few' grammatical errors aren't a hinderance to being understood!!!
Incidentally, I dont find the teenager much better at spoken english either!!

cjm

French friends are happy to advise that 'patois' is very much a factor. France being bigger than UK, one might feel the range is greater, certainly where I live, there is an 'accent'. Suppose it is rather like S/E England, Liverpool, Tyneside, Glasgow and deepest Yorkshire. As a London boy some UK accents have to be listened to intently, even then don't always catch thing.

I'm told Paris accent is not easy.

cyrian

Perhaps my restricted experience is not typical of France in general.
The teenagers I have met tend to come from professional families and have been confident and have spoke english at a very acceptable level.
This may not be general.

dmu

Hi,
There's a difference between accent and patois (and I take my hat off to an expat who can speak French patois).
I lived and worked in Paris and the Paris Region for over 20 years and have in-laws living there and I visit often. The only not-easy accents I've heard there are from foreigners - Real Parisiens speak through their nose, but that's the only difference from the accents of other parts of France. The real fruity ones are in the Languedoc, Provence, Alsace and le Nord (plus Belgium and Switzerland), but all are comprehensible, unlike some Northern English accents. I, a Sussex lass, have to watch such films as "The Full Monty" and "Billy Elliot" in v.o.s.t. in order to understand!
I learnt French at school several decades ago with English teachers and have never managed to get rid of my accent (although some French people think I'm Belgian).

Roger O

Thanks for that... just to mention that, after a superb 3 week holiday in Switzerland with my two daughters in June/July, I was rushed to hospital for two operations in late July / early August (gall bladder and pancreas) - but am now on a long recovery process which is slow but seems to go well!

Luckily my doctor arranged with CPAM (carte vitale) for 100% "prise en charge" for everything including nurses at home twice daily, etc and all peripheral treatment, so I don't have even to bother my "mutuel"! Good on the French health service!!

PS People tell me that I speak with a local Languedoc accent (pain = pang, etc.) and even Annaïck (my bretonne wife) is "catching" it after we moved down here from Antibes to Perpignan and Carcassonne in 2003/2007. Catalan and Occitan are still beyond me though many words of Occitan are comprehensible with a little "juggling in the mind"!!

For another slant on the language business:

Does Your Language Shape How You Think?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/ma...anguage&st=cse

A very interesting article on how "reality" is coloured by our mother tongue!

dennerlymum

extremely interesting article Roger!
Do hope you feel completely better very soon

G-J-B

I didn't do that well at GCSE French - if only I knew I'd be moving there in the future! I did try a GCSE paper the other day, and thankfully found it very easy. I'm sure I'd struggle a bit with the A-level one. Some English sound incredibly English when they speak French, but it hardly matters if you're understood. I'd rather people knew I wasn't French, so they don't think I'm backwards when I trip up all over the grammar - I know many of the grammatical rules, but don't always have time to mentally check them when my tongue's engaged. Strangely, whilst I don't sound French when I speak French, I don't sound English either: I've frequently been confused for German!

Karoline2010

French is a way more difficult than English

wetwang

Only a native English speaker would say that!

I see you spell your name with a 'K' which is not English so if you are from another country I could respect your opinion.
Either English or French is easier than Dutch.

le plumber

I don't believe it is - English is easy to start with but mastering the grammer isn't easy. French is Difficult to start with, but once you have the rules under your belt its a pretty easy language.

analyst

I consider myself very fortunate - at least as far as French language goes.

Wa-a-a-a-a-a-y back in 1964 when I first started French as a school subject, the language master was a very forward thinking bloke. He had scoured the world for a proper academic conversational French course and ended up directly importing one from, would you believe, America.

We used class tape recorders for all language work, this was before language laboratories came into fruition. It was brilliant, and I am so grateful for that, although I didn't particularly realise it at the time.

Because it was all conversational exercises he absolutely drilled us on correct pronunciation. I am (now) so glad we didn't waste our time doing pen-and-paper work.

At the end of our first year we were all able to hold a reasonable and confident conversation in French, but without the shy tittering and embarrassment normally shown by pre-teenage kids.

By the time we reached O-Level we were flying. My only regret is that a time-table clash prevented me from taking it on to A-Level. But many years later, this French is still deeply embedded.

So it goes to show, teaching languages works very well, its just about using the right methods. I think it would be a great shame if we drop French from UK schools - jeez, we are a lousy enough nation at speaking other languages.