EuroTrash

Well I guess that from an accountant's point of view hat's true as far as it goes in that France expects tax and cotisations to be paid regardless of how little you earn, but it would have been more helpful if he'd looked at the bigger picture and explained how "cumul d'emploi' and "activités accessoires" are treated in France, particularly with regard to social security.
For instance if you are a retiree and you earn a few thousand euros a year from a part time activity, then in terms of PUMA the cotisations you have paid on your earned income will be disregarded and URSSAF will bill you for cotisations based on your "unearned" income, exactly as if you were an inactif with no earned income. So it would seem patently unfair if you were prevented from getting an S1 on the one hand on the basis that you are economically active, but obliged to pay cotisations on the other hand.on the basis that you are economically inactif.

cyrian

The reason I posted that was to indicate to the OP that the more relaxed rules of HMRC do not apply to the FISC.
He should therefore check his status with others who are in the same situation e.g. academics or authors forum.

dmu

Thanks for that! I was hoping for a follow-up on my suggestion in #12 to research the question at the CPAM.
The OP hasn't said whether he intends to continue writing and earning money, but he now knows that he'll have potential issues with the URSSAF on the healthcare front, if he does.
The original question concerned Income Tax, but as said, working when living in France also concerns the URSSAF on the healthcare insurance front, and that redoubtable Organisation isn't to be treated lightly....
P.S. If the OP isn't clear what URSSAF and CPAM are, they are two departments of the French Social Security System, the first for paying Contributions in, the second for reimbursements. The Fisc is the nickname for the Tax Office, which is a completely separate Administration.

EuroTrash

Yes I agree there is no question on the income tax front, the income will have to be declared.
It's the SS front that's less clear.
FWIW whenever I got a few £ royalties from books I wrote prior to moving to France, I simply declareed them as "foreign income". It was never enough to pay social charges or income tax on and I didn't write any books in France so no isssues ever arose.

JohnCa

So...a lot more complex than I originally thought. Seems I need to check whether any retired authors living in France have had their S1 status compromised by writing after retirement. My writing has only ever been a hobby, which just about covers its costs. And never needed to support the family. Luckily.

EuroTrash

Certainly you would avoid the problem by hanging up your pen or your keyboard, but if you do want to carry on writing it shouldn't be insurmountable.
By all means check it out on writers forums, but do check with the authorities too. The devil is in the detail, and while you will likely find people in similar circumstances, finding someone in identical circumstances is less likely. And sod's law it will be the one tiny difference in circumstances that makes all the difference.
And of course, if the S1 is discontinued after Brexit then you won't have to worry about losing it...

dmu

Hi, don't limit yourself to expats, there must be French authors on State Pensions in the same boat. For example, OH wrote a professional book when he was still active, and when he retired, his son took over the authorship by adding up-to-date chapters, and they discreetly shared the royalties. My retired French lawman wanted to avoid the hassle which you might be faced with!
I found the following official link which may or may not be of any help, since there's no mention of retirees who continue to earn by writing. If you do consult some one at the CPAM on the subject when you're registering your S1, be aware that the URSSAF will have its beady eye on you in the future. This may sound paranoiac, but that's French Administrations for you...

https://www.service-public.fr/profes...sdroits/F23749

EuroTrash

But the issue here is the S1. French authors or indeed any other person on a French pension who wants to keep working, are in an entirely different position.
Just to clarify, it's not for CPAM to query an S1 issued by the UK. Any problems would arise later, after French cotisations have been paid and recorded on the system.

dmu

I meant that CPAM and URSSAF being hand in hand, any query about a retiree writing while in France from someone registering with their S1, will likely be flagged up by the CPAM agent in order to check on future activity.
The S1 giving UK retirees the same Social Security benefits as a French person receiving the French State Pension, French authors in the same boat can share their experiences. But, as said, whatever others say on forums, it should always be checked from official sources.
Hope the OP enjoys his retirement here, whether writing or not!

EuroTrash

Not wishing to be argumentative but I don't think the S1 does in fact give UK retirees the same social security benefits as French retirees. All it means is that the UK as their competent state is obliged to foot the bill for their healthcare, as long as they meet the criteria for holding an S1 - one of which is that they haven't worked and contributed in their host country since leaving the UK.
Also, pension arrangements are different, for instance I know that in some circumstances if a French person keeps working while taking their pension and earns above a certain threshold, their monthly pension is reduced proportionally - I don't think this happens in the UK?
Sorry but I would be wary of assuming that a retiree whose competent state is the UK would be treated in the same way as a retiree whose competent state is France.
But I'm sure the OP will sort it out and I join DMU in wishing the OP a happy retirement.

dmu

Fair enough, I was thinking more about the reimbursements of medical expenses.

cyrian

Just a general point for the benefit of future members.
The Connexion November 2019 issue has an article on hobbies and taxation which is entitled "Is business needed to sell a few wooden hobby items?"
It basically says that you can sell personal possessions that you no longer have use for but if you make or collect or buy items with the intention of selling them then you need to register a business.
The previous member I mentioned was thinking of moving to France from the UK where she would continue her "hobby" of breeding and selling horses.
This would not have been classed as a hobby in France.

KJMW

You don't have to pay tax in France if you worked for local government in the U.K. your choice! France, has a reciprocal agreement on that. You do, however, still need to file a tax return to the French system even though you wouldn't pay anything. Bureaucracy at work I'm afraid!!

EuroTrash

That's a bit misleading the way it's put, it makes it sound as if working for local government in the UK means you can opt never to pay any tax in France.
You don't pay tax in France on your UK local government pension, but your state pension for instance would still be taxable in France.
But if you also have a state OAP for instance, that would potentially be taxable in France. The fact that you also have a local government pension and used to work for local government in the UK doesn't change that. Each source of income is deal with separately, as per the tax convention, and you don't have any choice - some are always taxable in the UK such as UK government pensions and UK rental income, some are always taxable in France such as UK OAP state pensions, bank interest, French rental income etc.

Listen Very Carefully

Exactly it is not quite as simple as that as ET has said You declare your UK government occupational pension in France and you get an allowance from the Fisc equivalent to the amount of tax you would have paid had it been taxable in France There have times when those with very good pensions and with a favourable exchange rate have had to pay tax in France However for mere mortals generally your ax bill for France will be 0 for your govt occupational pension