I Have A Dream
Mar 7th 2014, 12:15 pm
#1
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Joined: Mar 2014
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I Have A Dream
Hi
Having read a few of these threads I realise that there are many out there that will shoot me down in flames for this post!
I've spent 25 successful years in the corporate world and hated 90% of it! My youngest leaves school in 2 years and the dream is to sell up and open a small Indian restaurant in France, where we holiday every year
I will spend the next two years properly learning the language and although not Indian myself I have many contacts in the restaurant game that have told me they will take me under their wings and show me the ropes.
It seems that the French don't have a taste for Indian/Spicy food (please correct me if I am wrong) so this venture would need to be in an expat area.
I would like to immerse myself in French life but for the business to succeed | would need British customers I think.
I am not looking for it to make fortunes, just enough to stop me raiding the savings.
There are not many Indian's in France as far as I have seen
In your opinion is this a daft idea and if not where would be the best location to make it work?
Kind Regards
Ade
Having read a few of these threads I realise that there are many out there that will shoot me down in flames for this post!
I've spent 25 successful years in the corporate world and hated 90% of it! My youngest leaves school in 2 years and the dream is to sell up and open a small Indian restaurant in France, where we holiday every year
I will spend the next two years properly learning the language and although not Indian myself I have many contacts in the restaurant game that have told me they will take me under their wings and show me the ropes.
It seems that the French don't have a taste for Indian/Spicy food (please correct me if I am wrong) so this venture would need to be in an expat area.
I would like to immerse myself in French life but for the business to succeed | would need British customers I think.
I am not looking for it to make fortunes, just enough to stop me raiding the savings.
There are not many Indian's in France as far as I have seen
In your opinion is this a daft idea and if not where would be the best location to make it work?
Kind Regards
Ade
Mar 7th 2014, 12:39 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Lille
Posts: 107
Re: I Have A Dream
There are Indian restaurants in France and they don't just serve British ex-pats.
There are, for instance, according to my Marmiton resto app, 10 Indian restaurants in Lille. One episode of the web series Le Visiteur du Futur took place in a real Indian restaurant in Paris (I can't remember the episode number but it was in Season 2).
Just use a search engine to find out how many Indian restos there are in any given area in France. That will tell you how likely it is for such a business to succeed.
There are, for instance, according to my Marmiton resto app, 10 Indian restaurants in Lille. One episode of the web series Le Visiteur du Futur took place in a real Indian restaurant in Paris (I can't remember the episode number but it was in Season 2).
Just use a search engine to find out how many Indian restos there are in any given area in France. That will tell you how likely it is for such a business to succeed.
Last edited by cmread; Mar 7th 2014 at 1:14 pm. Reason: Correction
Mar 7th 2014, 12:54 pm
#3
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Re: I Have A Dream
Hi thanks for taking time to respond, nothing on Trip Advisor in the Vendee which hopefully where we would be going to
Cheers
Cheers
Mar 7th 2014, 1:11 pm
#4
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Joined: May 2009
Location: Lot et Garonne
Posts: 576
Re: I Have A Dream
Hiya
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
Mar 7th 2014, 1:21 pm
#5
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Dépt 61
Posts: 5,254
Re: I Have A Dream
I think before you get too carried away, you should looking into the facts and figures of running any kind of small business in France.
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
I seem to recall that there used to be a special tax break for the restaurant industry, to try to stem the large number of restaurants going out of business, but I think that was withdrawn last year.
If you already knew how hard it will be and you're still considering it, then you obviously like a challenge. As you say, location will be key. The chances of making a financial success of any business that depends entirely on the British expat community are statistically very small in many parts of France. Probably in the Dordogne, where there is a high concentration of relatively well-off resident expats and floods of expat tourists in summer, you could. Somewhere like Sarlat maybe.
I wouldn't say the French don't like Indian food, many of them do. But eating out is not really a way of life in France, it is expensive and most families and friends prefer to entertain each other at their homes, they don't 'go out' for the sake of it as people tend to do in the UK. And the French are proud of national French cuisine so when they do go out, they tend to favour French restaurants. Immigrants go where the work is, so Paris, Marseilles, Lille, not necessarily places you dream of. And as you say, not so many Indian immigrants in France because immigration patterns still tend follow colonial traditions and India was part of the British empire.
I'm all in favour of following dreams. I think in your case the odds are stacked against you but anything is possible. The secret it to look at it as a once in a lifetime experience that might or might not work, and have a solid plan B to fall back on in case it doesn't. France taxes most businesses to death in the end, there is no shame in failing over here - you will be in good company, and if you can spend 3 or 4 years doing something you enjoy before you nosedive, well wouldn't that be a whole lot more fun than 25 successful years in a safe and secure job that you hate?
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
I seem to recall that there used to be a special tax break for the restaurant industry, to try to stem the large number of restaurants going out of business, but I think that was withdrawn last year.
If you already knew how hard it will be and you're still considering it, then you obviously like a challenge. As you say, location will be key. The chances of making a financial success of any business that depends entirely on the British expat community are statistically very small in many parts of France. Probably in the Dordogne, where there is a high concentration of relatively well-off resident expats and floods of expat tourists in summer, you could. Somewhere like Sarlat maybe.
I wouldn't say the French don't like Indian food, many of them do. But eating out is not really a way of life in France, it is expensive and most families and friends prefer to entertain each other at their homes, they don't 'go out' for the sake of it as people tend to do in the UK. And the French are proud of national French cuisine so when they do go out, they tend to favour French restaurants. Immigrants go where the work is, so Paris, Marseilles, Lille, not necessarily places you dream of. And as you say, not so many Indian immigrants in France because immigration patterns still tend follow colonial traditions and India was part of the British empire.
I'm all in favour of following dreams. I think in your case the odds are stacked against you but anything is possible. The secret it to look at it as a once in a lifetime experience that might or might not work, and have a solid plan B to fall back on in case it doesn't. France taxes most businesses to death in the end, there is no shame in failing over here - you will be in good company, and if you can spend 3 or 4 years doing something you enjoy before you nosedive, well wouldn't that be a whole lot more fun than 25 successful years in a safe and secure job that you hate?
Last edited by EuroTrash; Mar 7th 2014 at 1:25 pm.
Mar 7th 2014, 1:22 pm
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Lille
Posts: 107
Re: I Have A Dream
http://www.meilleursrestaurants.fr/s...ien/dr_vendee/
This suggests that there are a few such restos in the area, but not many. Are you really set on that area? As I said, there are 10 Indian restos in Lille. I haven't been to any of them as I don't like curry, but I know at least one of them has been there for 5 years because it was on the way to my favourite manga shop. The manga shop has since moved, but only a few weeks ago, so the resto is probably still there.
Mar 7th 2014, 1:23 pm
#7
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Re: I Have A Dream
Hiya
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
Mar 7th 2014, 1:27 pm
#8
Just Joined
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Re: I Have A Dream
I think before you get too carried away, you should looking into the facts and figures of running any kind of small business in France.
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
I seem to recall that there used to be a special tax break for the restaurant industry, to try to stem the large number of restaurants going out of business, but I think that was withdrawn last year.
If you already knew how hard it will be and you're still considering it, then you obviously like a challenge. As you say, location will be key. The chances of making a financial success of any business that depends entirely on the British expat community are statistically very small in many parts of France. Probably in the Dordogne, where there is a high concentration of relatively well-off resident expats and floods of expat tourists in summer, you could. Somewhere like Sarlat maybe.
I wouldn't say the French don't like Indian food, many of them do. But eating out is not really a way of life in France, it is expensive and most families and friends prefer to entertain each other at their homes, they don't 'go out' for the sake of it as people tend to do in the UK. And the French are proud of national French cuisine so when they do go out, they tend to favour French restaurants. Immigrants go where the work is, so Paris, Marseilles, Lille, not necessarily places you dream of. And as you say, not so many Indian immigrants in France because immigration patterns still tend follow colonial traditions and India was part of the British empire.
I'm all in favour of following dreams. I think in your case the odds are stacked against you but anything is possible. The secret it to look at it as a once in a lifetime experience that might or might not work, and have a solid plan B to fall back on in case it doesn't. France taxes most businesses to death in the end, there is no shame in failing over here - you will be in good company, and if you can spend 3 or 4 years doing something you enjoy before you nosedive, well wouldn't that be a whole lot more fun than 25 successful years in a safe and secure job that you hate?
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
I seem to recall that there used to be a special tax break for the restaurant industry, to try to stem the large number of restaurants going out of business, but I think that was withdrawn last year.
If you already knew how hard it will be and you're still considering it, then you obviously like a challenge. As you say, location will be key. The chances of making a financial success of any business that depends entirely on the British expat community are statistically very small in many parts of France. Probably in the Dordogne, where there is a high concentration of relatively well-off resident expats and floods of expat tourists in summer, you could. Somewhere like Sarlat maybe.
I wouldn't say the French don't like Indian food, many of them do. But eating out is not really a way of life in France, it is expensive and most families and friends prefer to entertain each other at their homes, they don't 'go out' for the sake of it as people tend to do in the UK. And the French are proud of national French cuisine so when they do go out, they tend to favour French restaurants. Immigrants go where the work is, so Paris, Marseilles, Lille, not necessarily places you dream of. And as you say, not so many Indian immigrants in France because immigration patterns still tend follow colonial traditions and India was part of the British empire.
I'm all in favour of following dreams. I think in your case the odds are stacked against you but anything is possible. The secret it to look at it as a once in a lifetime experience that might or might not work, and have a solid plan B to fall back on in case it doesn't. France taxes most businesses to death in the end, there is no shame in failing over here - you will be in good company, and if you can spend 3 or 4 years doing something you enjoy before you nosedive, well wouldn't that be a whole lot more fun than 25 successful years in a safe and secure job that you hate?
Mar 7th 2014, 1:36 pm
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Lille
Posts: 107
Re: I Have A Dream
I think before you get too carried away, you should looking into the facts and figures of running any kind of small business in France.
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
You will discover, if you didn't already know it, that the cost of running a small business in France is out of all proportion to running the equivalent business in the UK. Business taxes are sky high, social security contributions are sky high, employment legislation is crippling for many small businesses, and there is a lot of red tape. As a rule of thumb, at least 50 per cent of your turnover will end up in the State's pocket, one way and another, and if you made some wrong decisions about your business and tax regimes, it is not difficult to make money but still end up owing the state literally more money than you made. Do some serious research, try to understand the different regimes, find out what charges you would have to pay on each regimes, work out which would be best and do yourself a business plan.
Also the transport infrastructure is much better and cheaper in France than it is in the UK. It's no use having any workers or any businesses if no-one can get to them, is it? Property is cheaper so you don't have to subsidise a property bubble when you pay your employees. Education is better so potential employees are literate and numerate. In my opinion, the work ethic is also better. I have seen none of the entitlement ethic that one finds in the UK. The medical care is worlds better here, too. It can be difficult keeping workers if they die of infections caught in a hospital that isn't cleaned properly, you know. Don't forget as well that the UK is reputed to have the most complicated tax system in the world and that HMRC likes to target small businesses.
Don't let 'headline' tax rates take you in. All the things mentioned above are a tax on business and life in general in the UK. When the roads are full of pot holes, when the trains don't run, when the rubbish isn't collected for weeks at a time, when you can't get an appointment with a GP unless you call at exactly 8 am 10 days in advance, then you find out what the real rate of tax is. It's not just the amount of tax you pay, but what you get for it.
One thing, though, if you plan to open a restaurant, don't think you can run it in the manner that restos are often run in the UK. People here have high standards. They want good food and good service. They certainly don't want to be served by some whinging waitress who couldn't care one way or the other if she is serving dog meat.
Mar 7th 2014, 1:41 pm
#10
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Re: I Have A Dream
One thing, though, if you plan to open a restaurant, don't think you can run it in the manner that restos are often run in the UK. People here have high standards. They want good food and good service. They certainly don't want to be served by some whinging waitress who couldn't care one way or the other if she is serving dog meat.[/QUOTE]
Classic mate cheers. I run my own business now after leaving the corporate world behind. I'm not bad with the old customer service, but thanks for the heads up!!
PS Don't forget I holiday over there every year. Once spent 9 hours in their equivalent of A&E so there are swings and roundabout's I'm sure
Classic mate cheers. I run my own business now after leaving the corporate world behind. I'm not bad with the old customer service, but thanks for the heads up!!
PS Don't forget I holiday over there every year. Once spent 9 hours in their equivalent of A&E so there are swings and roundabout's I'm sure
Mar 7th 2014, 1:45 pm
#11
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Re: I Have A Dream
A check for "restaurant indien" in "Vendée" in the Pages Jaunes showed one in La Roche sur Yon. One Indian Restaurant in the whole of the Vendée Département!
Indian restaurants in France serve much stronger curries than in the UK and this is no doubt the reason why the French don't have a taste for them. They appreciate the mild curries served in Vietnamese or other Asiatic restaurants, which abound everywhere.
You would need advice from a French professional about starting up a restaurant here. France being France, it's not just a case of being shown the ropes (in the UK?) and having a lot of enthusiasm, you'll have rules and regulations to comply with, and endless paperwork for all things Administrative and, as mentioned, all types of Taxes and Social Contributions on employees' salaries, etc..., which are crippling to any type of business.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but I'm just being realistic so that you know what you would be in for if you pursued your dream. Fore-warned is fore-warned!
P.S. My cent's worth added to all the comments made while writing the above!
Mar 7th 2014, 1:51 pm
#12
Hostage Negotiator
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,173
Re: I Have A Dream
Hi Ade T and welcome to the forum.
There was a great series on C4 a few years ago about Nigel (an English journalist) and Nippy (an Indian) who opened up an Indian restaurant in the Ardeche. It was called a Place in France: An Indian Summer. You might be able to find a Torrent download of the series and I think there was a book.
Indian is my favourite cuisine but it's true the French don't like spicy food very much at all. There was a great Indian restaurant in Antibes (which has a large Brit/Oz population) but it lacked French customers and did not survive. If you do go down this route you need to have French and Foreign Legion versions of everything on the menu in order to keep all the customers happy.
ET has given you the low-down on the financial realities of business in France and it has to be said that for a restaurant to survive, half of its takings need to be undeclared cash. Everyone does it and, for the moment, no one is looking to carefully into this - I guess even tax inspectors need to have somewhere they can eat!
There was a great series on C4 a few years ago about Nigel (an English journalist) and Nippy (an Indian) who opened up an Indian restaurant in the Ardeche. It was called a Place in France: An Indian Summer. You might be able to find a Torrent download of the series and I think there was a book.
Indian is my favourite cuisine but it's true the French don't like spicy food very much at all. There was a great Indian restaurant in Antibes (which has a large Brit/Oz population) but it lacked French customers and did not survive. If you do go down this route you need to have French and Foreign Legion versions of everything on the menu in order to keep all the customers happy.
ET has given you the low-down on the financial realities of business in France and it has to be said that for a restaurant to survive, half of its takings need to be undeclared cash. Everyone does it and, for the moment, no one is looking to carefully into this - I guess even tax inspectors need to have somewhere they can eat!
Mar 7th 2014, 1:55 pm
#13
Just Joined
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Re: I Have A Dream
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
A check for "restaurant indien" in "Vendée" in the Pages Jaunes showed one in La Roche sur Yon. One Indian Restaurant in the whole of the Vendée Département!
Indian restaurants in France serve much stronger curries than in the UK and this is no doubt the reason why the French don't have a taste for them. They appreciate the mild curries served in Vietnamese or other Asiatic restaurants, which abound everywhere.
You would need advice from a French professional about starting up a restaurant here. France being France, it's not just a case of being shown the ropes (in the UK?) and having a lot of enthusiasm, you'll have rules and regulations to comply with, and endless paperwork for all things Administrative and, as mentioned, all types of Taxes and Social Contributions on employees' salaries, etc..., which are crippling to any type of business.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but I'm just being realistic so that you know what you would be in for if you pursued your dream. Fore-warned is fore-warned!
P.S. My cent's worth added to all the comments made while writing the above!
A check for "restaurant indien" in "Vendée" in the Pages Jaunes showed one in La Roche sur Yon. One Indian Restaurant in the whole of the Vendée Département!
Indian restaurants in France serve much stronger curries than in the UK and this is no doubt the reason why the French don't have a taste for them. They appreciate the mild curries served in Vietnamese or other Asiatic restaurants, which abound everywhere.
You would need advice from a French professional about starting up a restaurant here. France being France, it's not just a case of being shown the ropes (in the UK?) and having a lot of enthusiasm, you'll have rules and regulations to comply with, and endless paperwork for all things Administrative and, as mentioned, all types of Taxes and Social Contributions on employees' salaries, etc..., which are crippling to any type of business.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but I'm just being realistic so that you know what you would be in for if you pursued your dream. Fore-warned is fore-warned!
P.S. My cent's worth added to all the comments made while writing the above!
Mar 7th 2014, 1:57 pm
#14
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Re: I Have A Dream
Hi Ade T and welcome to the forum.
There was a great series on C4 a few years ago about Nigel (an English journalist) and Nippy (an Indian) who opened up an Indian restaurant in the Ardeche. It was called a Place in France: An Indian Summer. You might be able to find a Torrent download of the series and I think there was a book.
Indian is my favourite cuisine but it's true the French don't like spicy food very much at all. There was a great Indian restaurant in Antibes (which has a large Brit/Oz population) but it lacked French customers and did not survive. If you do go down this route you need to have French and Foreign Legion versions of everything on the menu in order to keep all the customers happy.
ET has given you the low-down on the financial realities of business in France and it has to be said that for a restaurant to survive, half of its takings need to be undeclared cash. Everyone does it and, for the moment, no one is looking to carefully into this - I guess even tax inspectors need to have somewhere they can eat!
There was a great series on C4 a few years ago about Nigel (an English journalist) and Nippy (an Indian) who opened up an Indian restaurant in the Ardeche. It was called a Place in France: An Indian Summer. You might be able to find a Torrent download of the series and I think there was a book.
Indian is my favourite cuisine but it's true the French don't like spicy food very much at all. There was a great Indian restaurant in Antibes (which has a large Brit/Oz population) but it lacked French customers and did not survive. If you do go down this route you need to have French and Foreign Legion versions of everything on the menu in order to keep all the customers happy.
ET has given you the low-down on the financial realities of business in France and it has to be said that for a restaurant to survive, half of its takings need to be undeclared cash. Everyone does it and, for the moment, no one is looking to carefully into this - I guess even tax inspectors need to have somewhere they can eat!
Mar 7th 2014, 3:27 pm
#15
Quien no sabe
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,989
Re: I Have A Dream
Hiya
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
I'm quite rural and there aren't any around here. I love a curry and cook them myself at home. I do find some of the ingredients hard to come by though.
There are 2 very successful French restaurants around here. Both do a menu du jour as well as a menu and both are packed everyday, lunch and dinner.
Both have closed because of the taxation. Beware.
I do think the OP's dream is highly feasible with a lot of work and skimming but I would be curious to the OP's catering experience as cooking for 25 to 35 covers in the evening is very different to knocking together sunday lunch. He would be advised to spend a year in an Indian Kitchen in the UK first. Busy kitchens can make or break you or just turn you into an good old fashioned alcoholic.
Last edited by Chatter Static; Mar 7th 2014 at 3:39 pm.