How does it take kids to speak French
Oct 4th 2007, 6:11 pm
#16
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Thats funny. I speak French fairly well and i have been told I have a good accent but I still wonder at which point during the word "bonjour" the French can tell i'm not a native. Sometimes I think it is a quarter of the way in to the letter b.
The French sometimes consider my wife to be Belgian because her accent is correct but there is something about it they can't place.
I am still at the annoying stage that French people will sometimes respond in awful English to my French. I can sometimes have whole conversations where I speak French and the French person speaks English. It can be a battle of wills. Sometimes I concede but other times I stand my ground. I do consider it rude if I start in French and they reply in English.
The French sometimes consider my wife to be Belgian because her accent is correct but there is something about it they can't place.
I am still at the annoying stage that French people will sometimes respond in awful English to my French. I can sometimes have whole conversations where I speak French and the French person speaks English. It can be a battle of wills. Sometimes I concede but other times I stand my ground. I do consider it rude if I start in French and they reply in English.
Oct 4th 2007, 6:12 pm
#17
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Nice replies. Its certainly interesting how language is learnt.
it is interesting about children not complicating the process. My 5 year old son showed me a pokerman card yesterday and said “je peux changer ça?” and explained that that is what you say if you want to change your card with someone. He has no idea about the structure of this sentence and doesn’t need to know.
My 8 year old daughter says things like je peux regarde (the telly)? Obviously I shouldn’t say ‘No, you must use the infinitive after the first verb’, but should I correct by saying “je peux regarder?” or should I just let it go ? I think no pressure is the best policy but gentle guidance is surely OK.
As an aside I think for adults as you become more competent with the language it is best if you just talk, I.e. just say it. I used to be too hung up about making errors that I would say nothing. Now I sometimes hear myself making horrendous errors. But if you wait in a conversation until you’ve formulated the sentence you can easily miss the moment.
I know my kids will speak better French than me. My fluency and vocab will improve but I will never speak like a native. My children should become bilingual which is completely different to fluency and competence.
it is interesting about children not complicating the process. My 5 year old son showed me a pokerman card yesterday and said “je peux changer ça?” and explained that that is what you say if you want to change your card with someone. He has no idea about the structure of this sentence and doesn’t need to know.
My 8 year old daughter says things like je peux regarde (the telly)? Obviously I shouldn’t say ‘No, you must use the infinitive after the first verb’, but should I correct by saying “je peux regarder?” or should I just let it go ? I think no pressure is the best policy but gentle guidance is surely OK.
As an aside I think for adults as you become more competent with the language it is best if you just talk, I.e. just say it. I used to be too hung up about making errors that I would say nothing. Now I sometimes hear myself making horrendous errors. But if you wait in a conversation until you’ve formulated the sentence you can easily miss the moment.
I know my kids will speak better French than me. My fluency and vocab will improve but I will never speak like a native. My children should become bilingual which is completely different to fluency and competence.
Just one little thing....my French teacher nearly strangled me if I ever said... "Je peux regarder" because "Je regarde" means any and all of: I watch, I can watch, I am able to watch etc, depending on the situation (and switching the words/intonation and turns it into a question). But, my French friend (we were originally penpals 26 years ago) would say "puis-je regarder..."
Guess the kidlets will work it out very well within the next year - they are lucky children
Oct 4th 2007, 6:28 pm
#18
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Great situation that you are in
Just one little thing....my French teacher nearly strangled me if I ever said... "Je peux regarder" because "Je regarde" means any and all of: I watch, I can watch, I am able to watch etc, depending on the situation (and switching the words/intonation and turns it into a question). But, my French friend (we were originally penpals 26 years ago) would say "puis-je regarder..."
Just one little thing....my French teacher nearly strangled me if I ever said... "Je peux regarder" because "Je regarde" means any and all of: I watch, I can watch, I am able to watch etc, depending on the situation (and switching the words/intonation and turns it into a question). But, my French friend (we were originally penpals 26 years ago) would say "puis-je regarder..."
Oct 4th 2007, 9:39 pm
#19
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Yep - I understand that...I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as they know that it is a spoken but not a written phrase, then that is fine. If you are a parent who reads, writes and speaks like a local then all will be fine.
Oct 4th 2007, 10:12 pm
#20
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Thank God that kids aren't pedants, they wouldn't have a chance!
Oct 5th 2007, 1:44 am
#21
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Tee hee.
Yes, the phase when the co-conversationalist insists on practicing their superior English skills is very trying. Just stick to French and they'll get the message (even if you don't always
).
And don't be afraid to do stereotypical French body language and hand gestures. Always goes down well.
Yes, the phase when the co-conversationalist insists on practicing their superior English skills is very trying. Just stick to French and they'll get the message (even if you don't always
).And don't be afraid to do stereotypical French body language and hand gestures. Always goes down well.
Last edited by Novocastrian; Oct 5th 2007 at 1:46 am.
Oct 5th 2007, 9:09 am
#22
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
I was talking to a supplier at work about this problem recently. He was Italian but spoke German, Spanish, English and French fluently. He said he had a lot of experience with the issue particularly in Germany. He explained that what you have to do is say.
“I am in your country and I am speaking your language. I will never speak to you in English.” He said it always works but that it can be a double edged sword because from then on you cannot switch if you start to struggle.
“I am in your country and I am speaking your language. I will never speak to you in English.” He said it always works but that it can be a double edged sword because from then on you cannot switch if you start to struggle.
Oct 7th 2007, 8:03 am
#23
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
My first post.
Have been in France since April with 4 kids 8, 5, 4 and 2. How long will it take the kids to speak French?
You hear all these wonderful stories of kids learning in ridiculously short amounts of time. I’ve even read some advertising for an exchange programme where it was claimed that “my son and daughter were speaking to each other in French after two weeks”. Obviously that is clear BS.
My kids are learning fast from school and they have perfect accents but they are a long way from competency. Learning to structure sentences is quite hard in French even with the so called magical learning abilities of children. And vocabulary obviously takes time to build up.
My wife and I speak French, me post A-level standard - I can manage in meetings in French, my wife is almost bi-lingual as she comes from a French speaking family. So this should make it easier as we can speak a bit of French at home. We actually don’t very much because it feels silly.
Just wondering how long it took for your children to be fluent and to understand everything.
I was also curious how it happens. Do they suddenly start speaking after absorbing and listening. They cross a line where they are confident enough to start talking, then there is an element of acceleration in the process? Or is it more of a gradual thing?
Have been in France since April with 4 kids 8, 5, 4 and 2. How long will it take the kids to speak French?
You hear all these wonderful stories of kids learning in ridiculously short amounts of time. I’ve even read some advertising for an exchange programme where it was claimed that “my son and daughter were speaking to each other in French after two weeks”. Obviously that is clear BS.
My kids are learning fast from school and they have perfect accents but they are a long way from competency. Learning to structure sentences is quite hard in French even with the so called magical learning abilities of children. And vocabulary obviously takes time to build up.
My wife and I speak French, me post A-level standard - I can manage in meetings in French, my wife is almost bi-lingual as she comes from a French speaking family. So this should make it easier as we can speak a bit of French at home. We actually don’t very much because it feels silly.
Just wondering how long it took for your children to be fluent and to understand everything.
I was also curious how it happens. Do they suddenly start speaking after absorbing and listening. They cross a line where they are confident enough to start talking, then there is an element of acceleration in the process? Or is it more of a gradual thing?
Bonne Chance
Oct 7th 2007, 9:42 pm
#24
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Just wanted to say we arrived 3 years ago with children of 7, 5, 3 and 18 months. The teachers remarked that the elder ones especially said nothing for at least a month, then, having absorbed sufficient French, began speaking French. Other kids don't believe they are English as they have no accent. I think a year is a fair estimate as to fluency but the masculine and feminine catches them out sometimes. They do struggle sometimes with grammar and can't have the same vocabulary as a French child simply because we normally speak in English at home. The children generally speak to each other in French but often flip between the two, it is astonishing. My eldest is now 11 and can translate almost without drawing breath.
We only have English TV at the moment but hope to get French on again shortly, as it is a huge help to us oldies and was good for the kids when we first arrived, many cartoons are familiar and I'm sure helped with their language.
Lanky Spoken Here, are you a fellow Lancastrian? I've been told Northerners find it easier to speak French due to the way we pronounce our vowels.
We only have English TV at the moment but hope to get French on again shortly, as it is a huge help to us oldies and was good for the kids when we first arrived, many cartoons are familiar and I'm sure helped with their language.
Lanky Spoken Here, are you a fellow Lancastrian? I've been told Northerners find it easier to speak French due to the way we pronounce our vowels.
Oct 8th 2007, 7:20 am
#25
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Just wanted to say we arrived 3 years ago with children of 7, 5, 3 and 18 months. The teachers remarked that the elder ones especially said nothing for at least a month, then, having absorbed sufficient French, began speaking French. Other kids don't believe they are English as they have no accent. I think a year is a fair estimate as to fluency but the masculine and feminine catches them out sometimes. They do struggle sometimes with grammar and can't have the same vocabulary as a French child simply because we normally speak in English at home. The children generally speak to each other in French but often flip between the two, it is astonishing. My eldest is now 11 and can translate almost without drawing breath.
We only have English TV at the moment but hope to get French on again shortly, as it is a huge help to us oldies and was good for the kids when we first arrived, many cartoons are familiar and I'm sure helped with their language.
Lanky Spoken Here, are you a fellow Lancastrian? I've been told Northerners find it easier to speak French due to the way we pronounce our vowels.
We only have English TV at the moment but hope to get French on again shortly, as it is a huge help to us oldies and was good for the kids when we first arrived, many cartoons are familiar and I'm sure helped with their language.
Lanky Spoken Here, are you a fellow Lancastrian? I've been told Northerners find it easier to speak French due to the way we pronounce our vowels.
L'acajou
That is very encouraging as you are in a very similar situation to us.
We only have French television but this is because i read on the internet how easy it is to set up a satellite yourself. I've never been able to find the signal and since buying the canal + package we've got used to French telly now. Watching French telly with French subtitles is great for your French.
I am from Manchester. You are right about northerners. We do not use diphthongs in many our words (where the vowel sound varies within the vowel). If you take the word 'bath' a northerner will say the 'a' the way the French do as in 'chat'. A southerner's 'a' is longer and changes pitch so it almost sounds like bahrth.
My wife is from surrey and we lived there so the kids do not have a northern accent in English.
Do your kids still speak with a northern accent now? We know people here whose kids' English accents are a bit messed up. One has adopted the northern irish accent of his teacher but in this case the mother married a French man so they do not speak much english at home.
Oct 8th 2007, 10:30 am
#26
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Re: How does it take kids to speak French
Hello Henry - what a good name, our 8 year old is Henry, equally happy as Henri !. Our kids do have Lancashire accents, my husband is a farmer and they are notorious for having very strong accents, probably globally! As I am what my husband calls educated, my accent is less pronounced, although we were brought up about 15 miles apart, sometimes even I can't understand him. In fact relatives visiting say the children speak really nicely in English, so I like to think it is because they listen more to me than they do their father.
We have also noticed, particularily when you first arrive, you tend to moderate your accent to make yourself more easily understood. My husband has had to do this, as has a Scottish friend, but we often find we tend to speak to French people, sometimes English as well, in a kind of disjointed, unnatural way, with a confusing array of French vocabulary thrown in. Sometimes we forget the English word and can only "find" the French word!
We have also noticed, particularily when you first arrive, you tend to moderate your accent to make yourself more easily understood. My husband has had to do this, as has a Scottish friend, but we often find we tend to speak to French people, sometimes English as well, in a kind of disjointed, unnatural way, with a confusing array of French vocabulary thrown in. Sometimes we forget the English word and can only "find" the French word!
