Frankie1992

Hi there,

My name is frankie me and my husband and 14 month year old looking to move to France. We are starting a business out there. We are looking for somewhere that isn't touristy but ex pats there and just good for children etc. We don't really like the whole city thing but need a little bit of life.

Really stuck on where is best? Please could someone give info? And help would be much appreciated (:

Many thanks

Frank

Xx

Chatter Static

Welcome to the Forum what business are you starting out here? Is the business location dependant and what has inspired you to start such a venture and you mention expats is it dependant on them/us?

Picking areas to live tends to be a pretty personal thing as all regions here vary a fair bit.

Have you looked into the complications of running a business here, it's not easy and not cheap and you won't get rich quick.

Again welcome to the forum.....

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
As CS so rightly pointed out, have you sorted out what French business structure you'll be setting up? Even if it's internet-based, it can't be based in the UK if you're physically working here, and it isn't as simple as you might think.... Depending on what your business is, you should consult a French Expert-Comptable as to its structure. The good news is that, having a French business, gets you into the System giving you healthcare coverage for your family. Others in the know will come along with more advice on French businesses.
CS also rightly pointed out that choosing a location is a personal thing and every one on the forum will recommend their own area. There are expats all over, some more concentrated (e.g. Dordogne) than others.
If you're intending to live in France forever more, then leave your child at the local Halte-Garderie from time to time, to start him/her socialising in French from the start (and to give you a couple of hours' break!) At 3, he/she can start Maternelle and make friends - this in turn will help you yourselves integrate....
For more advice, you should give us more info. Your business, your French skills, buying or renting?

bigglesworth

Good morning Frankie and welcome to the forum
You will get lots of good advice. Peopple here really are a mine of information, so you may need to sort through it a bit.
France is very family and child oriented, so you will find that helpful. There are areas where you can get by without speaking French, but you miss out on so much so get practising if you do not already! I guess from te age of your baby you are young enough that you will find it easier than many. Also having a young child will as dmu says help you integrate - and to speak French as you will find very rapidly that he/she speaks better than you.
Areas vary greatly. Many of us come to retire so tend to pick quieter areas. Whatever you do, bear in mind logistical practical matters. Large mansions that you could not possibly afford in the UK are great- for holidays in the summer. Not when you have to heat them, and your nearest neighbour is ten miles away and only speaks patois. And your child wants to meet his friends giving you a twenty mile drive there and back.
Most of the smaller towns are comparatively quiet at night (compared to the UK) French people tend to socialise en famille, and their main meal is at lunchtime. Useful tip stay off the roads between 12 and 12.30 and 1.30 to 2. NOTHING gets between a Frenchman and his lunch!
As CS and dmu say, give us all a bit more information on your plans and we can give you better advice. The "expert comptable" (Accountant) really is a good idea. They can save you quite a bit on tax anyway.
Best of luck.

Frankie1992

Hello, Thank you for replying so promptly.

We have an established business in the UK, but we need to expand now.
Our business is focused on school wear name tapes and accessories. A combination of printed and woven products.

Ah I see, mmm we are going to research a lot more but just trying to get the ball rolling.

Many thanks,

Frank

Frankie1992

Hello, Thank you for replying!

Ah I see we have a UK business, but need to expand we focus on school wear labels and printed accessories. Our uk company is Woven labels uk. If you take a look you will see exactly what we do. We did a trial with a site and found that there where plenty of orders and views but the orders did not complete due to the final payment. Therefore we have decided to move over and do it properly. My French is very very limited and have started lessons, my husband on the other hand lived in Antibes for a few years working on yachts so has pigeon French. We are just looking for advice on the best area to bring children up and not be so distanced from the British way of life ( I need a bit of social life). Dordogne is looking more and more appealing but we do want to experience France as well. Thanks for the info that's helpful, yes I shall wait for the replies off of people who have expanded in different parts

dmu

thanks for the extra info.
Will your future French business structure declare your domicile as its "place of business"? Do you actually manufacture the name tapes yourselves? If you rent, you'd need written permission from your landlord to do so in his premises, likewise if you are simply trading them. Your lease (and no doubt the rent) would be different from a normal dwelling...
If you are buying property, then you'd still have to declare to the Authorities (Tax Office) that you are making space available for a business. I speak from experience - I used to work from home and remember having to fill in long forms. I didn't notice whether it made a difference to the various Taxes, but it was one more bit of annoying Bureaucracy to cope with.
All the best with your venture, but bear in mind that, as there's no uniform in State schools, adolescents in particular often refuse labels on their normal clothes (and even sports gear)! (Maternelle and Primaire children are more compliant, and there should be a market for them!)
Continue with your research!

EuroTrash

I'm not really getting your reasons for wanting to move to France.
You say you want to expand your business, so presumably you'll be keeping running the UK operation as well? By 'move over and do it properly' I guess you mean, set up a French arm of the business to run alongside the UK operation? But living in France and operating a business here and a business in the UK will make your tax and social security situation pretty complicated. With a business registered in both countries you'd be dual tax resident in any case, and if your family home is in France you could end up being classed as fiscally resident here and therefore liable to declare worldwide income here rather than in the UK. You'd need to look at the implications of this very carefully indeed. I don't know how big a company you are at the moment, but this definitely isn't something to get into without an international tax specialist to guide you.

You'd need at least do a business plan to be sure it's going to be worth your while before you consider it. As other posters have said, running a business in France is not a simple matter; France isn't small business friendly, it usually comes out near the bottom of the league tables for ease of running a business whereas the UK comes out near the top, and you will inevitably make less profit here than you would in the UK from an identical business model. The main reason for this is that if you live and work in France you normally have to join the French social security system, and the obligatory contributions here are massively higher than UK national insurance contributions. As a small business in France your social security contributions are typically between 40-45 per cent of your profit. You need to understand how it all works to choose the most cost efficient regime and avoid paying more than you need, and since most of the information is only given in French, it does seem you're setting yourself quite a challenge.

Unless you really want to live here - which since you say you don't want to distance yourself from the British way of life, seems a bit dubious - I think that from the business point of view it would be beneficial to remain UK resident. France is not easy money. Couldn't you just sell to France on eBay or via your own website? I don't understand what you said about the sales not completing due to the final payment.

But if you're sure want to do it, as others have said, parts of Dordogneshire are probaby the nearest you'll get to Little England if that's what you want. If you need good broadband internet for your business, check that out first because there are still parts of France where broadband isn't available or runs at a snail's pace.

dmu

I would add that, as Gérante (and sole employee) of an Sàrl, I had to work and be paid the equivalent of half my nominal salary each month in order to pay the social charges, before being able to put any income in my pocket.
Talking of income, just for info, the official Poverty Level in France for a couple with one child is between 1500 and 1800€ per month. This is for the basics (food, utilities, insurances, taxes) and doesn't cover Top-Up Insurance and treats. Adding the social charges to this minimum income for survival, means that a monthly availability of over 2000€ is necessary. Will this be feasible for the OPs?
I forgot to mention is that there are no Family Allowances here for one child, and no other benefits which the OPs might get in the UK, without a lot of Bureaucracy involved. They would need assistance from a French-speaker to sort all this personal paperwork out with the Administrations.
I must sound like a wet blanket but I'm being realistic. If you were simply a couple, I'd say go for it, but with a child in tow.....
Fore-warned is fore-armed!

Tweedpipe

As usual there is some excellent advise here, with loads to chew over for anyone with a strong-enough stomach wishing to set up a business here.
And that's without even mentioning the political and social unrest which appears more severe now than it was in 2012.
And my political crystal ball isn't looking too cheerful for April/May 2017 either, with the socialists still riding very stormy seas with someone akin to Captain Albert Trotter at the helm, and the Republican party too imho completely in disarray.

cyrian

Hi Frankie,I don't know what you mean when you say "just good for children" and "need a little bit of life".Do you feel that you cannot achieve these in the UK or is there a very strong pull towards France?I have some friends who are in the process of moving to Cornwall for just those reasons.Everything is different in France - you cannot just pack your life (including business) into a removal van and unload it all in France.You cannot keep your lives separate - the UK life and the French life - you have to choose a system and go with it.The language is different.The education is different.The healthcare is different.Taxation is different.Buying property is different.Running a business is different.You can achieve this by researching each of these elements and if they all work for you then go for it.Good luck

dmu

I've just googled "étiquettes personnalisées" and discovered a lot of results, which indicates that there'll be stiff competition from established French firms. If the OPs are counting on expat customers to make a living, they should research the number of young families in each area, before deciding where to settle and whether the venture is feasible, bearing all the above advice in mind.
Going back to an earlier post, I would have thought that, with a business to run and having a toddler around, even with a husband to help, there's no time nor energy for a "bit of life" here, but I did suggest leaving the child at the local Halte-Garderie for a couple of hours from time to time, if only to go to the hairdressers or doctor/dentist (for example!). This is what I did when I worked from home with two pre-school children and an OH working long hours in his office, and I didn't need a bit of life, esp. if this means just sitting in a bar for a drink while some one is babysitting at home. But this is only my personal opinion, I wasn't young at the time....

EuroTrash

If it's mail order / internet sales, I don't suppose it makes any difference to the business whereabouts in France the OP lives. But I still think it would be better from the business point of view to stay UK based. Not many companies that operate EU-wide would choose to base themselves fiscally in France, given a choice. But, I don't know why the OP has decided to expand by targeting France specifically, rather than the rest of the EU in general (or indeed the rest of the world). There must be a reason for this but I haven't understood it, or maybe I have the wrong end of the stick altogether.

Even M&S, with all their army of legal advisers and tax gurus, couldn't make a go of France first time round - they pulled out and tried again a decade or so later.

dmu

I don't know either.... The OP hasn't said why France is targeted specifically. Her first post indicates that she's no idea where they want to settle, doesn't seem to know France, and apparently her OH hasn't suggested going to Antibes....
It sounds as though they need a change of scenery and, as mentioned above, it would be more logical to move to a more "child-friendly" area in the UK and maintain all their family/social ties/benefits there without the hassle of being forced to learn French quickly to survive the professional rat-race here and cope with the general nitty-gritty of daily life and the frequent unexpected....
She did well to ask for advice on the forum, and now has a lot of food for thought.

babyposer

Hi there

I don't think this business is a good idea in France, the mothers usually do their own stuff especially for tracksuits (children tend to forget their own in the locker), plus French kids don't wear uniforms so there's no real need to put school wear name tapes on clothes.

But I may be wrong..