JamesT636

Hi everyone.
I'm James and I'm new to the forum.
Me and my wife have had the idea of the French Dream now for some years. We were originally considering moving there but have to admit with the hectic lifestyle and 4 young children we actually can't commit to this.
So the idea of a holiday home is very appealing, so too is the prices...
The area of interest is the Poitiu Charente region. The weather appeals to us, and I'm aware of the micro-climates dotted around. I hear the one from La Rochelle and stretching inland approx 30km? Is gorgeous.
We plan on buying a derelict property for around 30k sterling, with a view to renovate over the coming years.
I am a builder and have many colleagues that would help me along the way.
I know this region is large but just any information on it overall would be great. We'd love to be wishing 5 minutes of a small town and 20 mins of a larger one.
We plan on spending 6 weeks in the summer there and the odd week here and there. With a hope this could extend as we get older.
Any info at this stage greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance
James

cyrian

Hi James
Welcome to the forum.
As far as the idea to refurb a property, France is VERY different from the UK.
1. You have to get permission from the local maire.
2. You have to get permission for each part of the build. - electrics; plumbing; stonework; roofing; drainage etc; etc; etc.
These permits must be posted in public view on the site during the work.
All permits must comply with french building standards and can only be signed off by a french registered tradesman.
Some Brits have done work on french property "under the radar" including UK electric sockets and plumbing.
These houses will never sell other than to a Brit.
Potentially, your french neighbours will denounce you to the Maire or the tax authorities if you dont follow the rules.
The second thing to consider is that you will not make money on a french property unless you live in Paris or Lyon and a few other areas. The property market is nothing like the UK.
Houses sell very slowly in rural France - it can take one or two years to find a buyer and complete the sale.
Another BE member has done what you suggest and has not been able to sell their house after 6 years.
If you are prepared to buy a property which is habitable and you use it as a holiday home for the family and at the end-of-the-day you accept that you will only get your money back then go for it.
You need to do your homework on the viability of your proposal.
HTH

cardi

A bit more than 30K will get you a basically liveable property with work to do which you can do yourself. Certain 'facade' work will need permission and will generate delivery of an H1 form which will increase your local taxes.
As said French bureaucracy can be a nightmare if you don't know your way around it.


Be aware that many Brits have 'done up' derelict or older properties using French registered workers in the expectation of the property being more valuable to cover the costs of the work. Many have lost money.

JamesT636

Thanks for the replies guys,
We don't plan on buying the property as an investment, rather a long term family holiday home, something that we have for years that can be used by the grandkids etc.
We would like to be rural in a sense that basic ships are within 5 minutes and larger supermarket etc within 15-20.
From what I have looked at, I THINK this is feasible, but obviously location is key.
I read that the rain can be biblical in that region, but I guess the weather in general is an improvement over UK?!
We have a trip planned in JULY and hope to view 3-4 properties to get the feel.
Thanks

James

lissie

Hi James , I have no help to offer sorry. We were looking in the same sort of area for a year or so from now . Just makes me laugh that a lot of people on here seem to think We are only buying a property in France to make some money. Lol heaven forbid you might actually want to live there .
Anyway best of luck

cyrian

No Lissie
It is a warning that you may not get your initial purchase price plus renovation costs back.
In addition, it can take a long time for property (esp rural) to sell in France.
The members here don't know your situation and try to warn other members that the property market is very different in France and if they put their life savings into a french property then they may end up in the s**t.
HTH

lissie

Oh ok, point taken thank you for the explanation

EuroTrash

Sadly a lot of Brits do. They see "cheap" property and assume that property is by definition an investment, because in the UK property is a commodity and they imagine that France must work the same. Then they learn the hard way that France is not the UK, in France a house is a place to live, and as Cyrian says they end up in the sh**t because they don't really want to live there but they're stuck with it. We've probably all see it happen.

JamesT636

Thanks for your time guys,
Just to confirm we definitely do not want to do this as an investment.
We totally want to be in it for the long haul and holiday here whenever possible hopefully multiple times a year with a view as time goes on we can increase.
Just really interested in any info relating to this, I know location can mean a lot. We don't plan on working in France, nor renting out property or buying for an investment.
Is the weather as good as it sounds? I know rain can really come down, but hopefully generally sunny in the Poitou Charente region?
Is it safe to mock and leave a holiday home there? Is it low crime rate etc?
Thanks again

James

cyrian

Hi James
In all aspects of your proposed project you need to look at everything with your eyes wide open.
We look forward to your subsequent questions.
Poitou Charente has a nice climate and many french own second homes in the region. Second homes are very common in France - often an inherited home.
These homes lie empty for long periods. Your house would probably be just one of many.
Unfortunately, you don't get guarantees against break-ins.
HTH

Tweedpipe

Regarding the, "Is it low crime rate etc?" comment concerning the Poitou Charentes region.
It's somewhat difficult to obtain meaningful updated information on crime rates in France.
If we exclude France overseas territories, from daily tv broadcasts I've always been under the impression that ile de France and Provence Alpes Cote d'Azur come very high on the list when it comes to crimes of all nature, and especially burglaries. And knowing the area well, my perception has always been that Midi Pyrenees (especially Haute Garonne) also comes high on the list for burglaries, car break-ins and the like.
I can't recall hearing that Poitou Charentes is either a good or bad region concerning crime in general.
However, a 5min Google has thrown up some interesting stats.
In terms of burglaries, an annual report published in 2016 shows Haute Garonne in second worst 'high' category, effectively confirming my perceptions and personal experience (cars broken into x2, in 1971 and 1989).
Charente and Charente-Maritime are placed in the 'average' category for the total number of violence & burglaries.
It should be noted that neighbouring dept Dordogne is in the less secure 'high' category - perhaps echoing Cyrian's comment about the many second homes in some regions.
There are only a couple of departments that now remain in the relatively safe 'low' category.
All the above give only a thumbnail picture of the general situation. It's a very sad state of affairs here that even repeat offenders have very little to fear - not even a slap on the wrist. If one listens to the radio, daily reports of x15 and even x20 repeat offenders are commonplace. And they're still roaming the streets. Partially due to the nanny state, and the fact that all prisons are bursting at the seams with an average of 115 inmates per 100 places. (One of Macron's promises is to create thousands of new cells).

Needless to say we moved away from Haute Garonne 11 years ago, but even in our current very peaceful location just outside a small village, there have been two neighbours broken into over the last 2 years. One a very large property just opposite which just cries money, and the other next door to us far more modest without a surrounding wall, making it more vulnerable. Neither are second holiday homes.
Would I have a second holiday property in France, and only visit a few times a year? Not on your nelly, but many do and are happy with their lifestyles, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Tips? Prior to purchasing that satelite dish and getting it installed, carefully rethink through the priorities. Wherever you are located, fitting additional security locks on doors and windows, and having a good security alarm installed makes perfect sense. It's something we did on first moving here, and it certainly gives far greater peace of mind when out shopping or away on vacation. I even renewed the 11 year old, faded 'Beware of the Dog' sign on the outer wall, notwithstanding that we lost my beloved 4-legged friend just before Christmas. Security remains a high priority, even for us relatively modest paupers.

EuroTrash

Crime figures from last year here
Le classement 2016 des crimes et délits, département par département
Haute-Garonne is indeed one of the worst departments according to the stats. Charente-Maritime is average-ish.