French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Aug 29th 2020, 12:32 pm
#16
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
THanks for the all information.
>>For instance if the pay period is the first to the last day of the month, and your contract started on the 8th, obvously they would make a deduction.
yes exactly, the contract paperwork itself was from the 8th to the end of the month, I worked the 7 days prior to that, but so far, it appears I worked for free that week?
>>For instance if the pay period is the first to the last day of the month, and your contract started on the 8th, obvously they would make a deduction.
yes exactly, the contract paperwork itself was from the 8th to the end of the month, I worked the 7 days prior to that, but so far, it appears I worked for free that week?
All the best!
P.S. Send everything in writing by LRAR!
Last edited by dmu; Aug 29th 2020 at 12:35 pm.
Aug 29th 2020, 1:55 pm
#17
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Looking at your payslip, as per the link, it would appear that your contract ended part way through a pay period.
Each pay period is based on 35 hrs per week, multiplied by 52 weeks to give the annual salary, divided by 12 because you're paid 12 times a year. So each pay period is for 151.67 hours.
So each salary doesn't necessarily exactly equate to the number of hours you've worked since you received the previous salary, but over the year it works out right.
The way to check if you've been paid correctly overall, is to get all the payslips you've received and add together how many hours you've been paid for (which will be 151.67 per pay period, minus the 39.67 hours that have been deducted from your last payslip, minus any that were deducted from your first payslip). Then get a calendar and count how many actual hours you worked from your first working day to your last working day. The answer to those sums should be very similar if not exactly the same.
Hope that makes sense.
If there's a big difference, you need to phone your company, tell them how many hours you think they've short paid you, and ask them to explain.
I'm not saying they haven't made a mistake, but what I can say is when I worked as a campsite administrator, every month end I had staff lining up to complain that their wages were wrong, and the reason in every case was that they expected to get the same amount every month whereas in fact, because of the way the weekends and their days off fell, they had actually worked several days less in one month than they did the previous month. In your case it's kind of the opposite, you do get paid the same every month but in fact your total hours worked will have been slightly different each month, and at the end of the contract there has to be an adjustment made to ensure that overall, you are paid for the exact hours you worked.
Saying that, unless your contract did end before the end of the pay period 39 hours is quite a lot to be adrift. But you need start by doing the sums to see how many hours you did actually work end to end, because you can't challenge it until you know what the correct figures should be.
Each pay period is based on 35 hrs per week, multiplied by 52 weeks to give the annual salary, divided by 12 because you're paid 12 times a year. So each pay period is for 151.67 hours.
So each salary doesn't necessarily exactly equate to the number of hours you've worked since you received the previous salary, but over the year it works out right.
The way to check if you've been paid correctly overall, is to get all the payslips you've received and add together how many hours you've been paid for (which will be 151.67 per pay period, minus the 39.67 hours that have been deducted from your last payslip, minus any that were deducted from your first payslip). Then get a calendar and count how many actual hours you worked from your first working day to your last working day. The answer to those sums should be very similar if not exactly the same.
Hope that makes sense.
If there's a big difference, you need to phone your company, tell them how many hours you think they've short paid you, and ask them to explain.
I'm not saying they haven't made a mistake, but what I can say is when I worked as a campsite administrator, every month end I had staff lining up to complain that their wages were wrong, and the reason in every case was that they expected to get the same amount every month whereas in fact, because of the way the weekends and their days off fell, they had actually worked several days less in one month than they did the previous month. In your case it's kind of the opposite, you do get paid the same every month but in fact your total hours worked will have been slightly different each month, and at the end of the contract there has to be an adjustment made to ensure that overall, you are paid for the exact hours you worked.
Saying that, unless your contract did end before the end of the pay period 39 hours is quite a lot to be adrift. But you need start by doing the sums to see how many hours you did actually work end to end, because you can't challenge it until you know what the correct figures should be.
Last edited by EuroTrash; Aug 29th 2020 at 1:59 pm.
Aug 29th 2020, 2:08 pm
#18
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
I'm not sure I understand it though. If your contract was from the 8th to the end of the month, that will be what you've been paid for, which it looks as if it is.
What do you mean by "I worked the 7 days prior to that"? Do you mean you started work before the start date on your contract? Why would you do that? If it was a verbal agreement made after your contract was signed, you needed to make sure that your contract was changed to reflect the revised arrangements. If you didn't, it"s probably a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand did. Payroll can only pay you according to what the paperwork says. The system won't allow them to pay you for any working days outside your contract period, that would contravene all kinds of rules. If you agreed something different with the operations department, you need to get operations to do the necessary paperwork and send it to payroll.
I feel I'm back at work...
Sep 1st 2020, 4:03 pm
#19
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
As far as the verbal agreement said, work was to commence from the 1st not the 7th! So it looks like there trying to pull a fast one by not asking for a contract in writing and not by *verbal*
🤦♂️
🤦♂️
Sorry I somehow didn't see your post before I replied above!
I'm not sure I understand it though. If your contract was from the 8th to the end of the month, that will be what you've been paid for, which it looks as if it is.
What do you mean by "I worked the 7 days prior to that"? Do you mean you started work before the start date on your contract? Why would you do that? If it was a verbal agreement made after your contract was signed, you needed to make sure that your contract was changed to reflect the revised arrangements. If you didn't, it"s probably a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand did. Payroll can only pay you according to what the paperwork says. The system won't allow them to pay you for any working days outside your contract period, that would contravene all kinds of rules. If you agreed something different with the operations department, you need to get operations to do the necessary paperwork and send it to payroll.
I feel I'm back at work...
I'm not sure I understand it though. If your contract was from the 8th to the end of the month, that will be what you've been paid for, which it looks as if it is.
What do you mean by "I worked the 7 days prior to that"? Do you mean you started work before the start date on your contract? Why would you do that? If it was a verbal agreement made after your contract was signed, you needed to make sure that your contract was changed to reflect the revised arrangements. If you didn't, it"s probably a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand did. Payroll can only pay you according to what the paperwork says. The system won't allow them to pay you for any working days outside your contract period, that would contravene all kinds of rules. If you agreed something different with the operations department, you need to get operations to do the necessary paperwork and send it to payroll.
I feel I'm back at work...
Sep 1st 2020, 4:42 pm
#20
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
When an employer takes on a new employee, the employer has to register a "déclaration préalable à l'embauche" with URSSAF before the person starts work. This is a form they fill out, usually online, and one vital piece of information is the date the employee starts work.
All the information on your payslip - social security contributions due etc - also goes to URSSAF and gets recorded. The dates and details have to match up so that in the event of an inspection the authorities can verify that the employer has done everything by the book. Employment is tightly controlled in France, URSSAF has records of every hour you've worked, every euro your employer has paid you, all the contributions that have been paid, etc so in the event of an inspection they check things like, the employee is being paid at the correct rate for the job, they haven't exceeded their maximum daily or weekly working hours, they've been paid the correct overtime rate for any working hours over 35 per week, no unauthorised deductions have been made, etc. The start and finish dates that URSSAF has recorded have to be correct, you can't declare one start date to URSSAF and then make a verbal agreement to do something different.. If you started work a week before URSSAF had you recorded as an employee, then technically you were working "on the black" for a week.
I have no idea what's happened here or how it happened, but you may find a bit of background information useful when you start trying to unravel the knot.
All the information on your payslip - social security contributions due etc - also goes to URSSAF and gets recorded. The dates and details have to match up so that in the event of an inspection the authorities can verify that the employer has done everything by the book. Employment is tightly controlled in France, URSSAF has records of every hour you've worked, every euro your employer has paid you, all the contributions that have been paid, etc so in the event of an inspection they check things like, the employee is being paid at the correct rate for the job, they haven't exceeded their maximum daily or weekly working hours, they've been paid the correct overtime rate for any working hours over 35 per week, no unauthorised deductions have been made, etc. The start and finish dates that URSSAF has recorded have to be correct, you can't declare one start date to URSSAF and then make a verbal agreement to do something different.. If you started work a week before URSSAF had you recorded as an employee, then technically you were working "on the black" for a week.
I have no idea what's happened here or how it happened, but you may find a bit of background information useful when you start trying to unravel the knot.
Sep 1st 2020, 4:53 pm
#21
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Sep 1st 2020, 5:12 pm
#22
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Just worked out my hourly rate based on what I was paid -
4.15€
It is worth noting the first week I worked for them, the skill set required was totally NOT in the job description,
as I was doing DIY instead of the following - We need : for the bar, for the restaurant ( waiter), the reception etc
-
for the first 7 days with no day off.
They obviously did not record these 7 days of DIY with the
URSSAF, nor was I paid anything for that. So I worked in the beyond black, if I knew they were not going to pay me for that week then I would obviously not of worked for FREE 😡
4.15€
It is worth noting the first week I worked for them, the skill set required was totally NOT in the job description,
as I was doing DIY instead of the following - We need : for the bar, for the restaurant ( waiter), the reception etc
-
for the first 7 days with no day off.
They obviously did not record these 7 days of DIY with the
URSSAF, nor was I paid anything for that. So I worked in the beyond black, if I knew they were not going to pay me for that week then I would obviously not of worked for FREE 😡
When an employer takes on a new employee, the employer has to register a "déclaration préalable à l'embauche" with URSSAF before the person starts work. This is a form they fill out, usually online, and one vital piece of information is the date the employee starts work.
All the information on your payslip - social security contributions due etc - also goes to URSSAF and gets recorded. The dates and details have to match up so that in the event of an inspection the authorities can verify that the employer has done everything by the book. Employment is tightly controlled in France, URSSAF has records of every hour you've worked, every euro your employer has paid you, all the contributions that have been paid, etc so in the event of an inspection they check things like, the employee is being paid at the correct rate for the job, they haven't exceeded their maximum daily or weekly working hours, they've been paid the correct overtime rate for any working hours over 35 per week, no unauthorised deductions have been made, etc. The start and finish dates that URSSAF has recorded have to be correct, you can't declare one start date to URSSAF and then make a verbal agreement to do something different.. If you started work a week before URSSAF had you recorded as an employee, then technically you were working "on the black" for a week.
I have no idea what's happened here or how it happened, but you may find a bit of background information useful when you start trying to unravel the knot.
All the information on your payslip - social security contributions due etc - also goes to URSSAF and gets recorded. The dates and details have to match up so that in the event of an inspection the authorities can verify that the employer has done everything by the book. Employment is tightly controlled in France, URSSAF has records of every hour you've worked, every euro your employer has paid you, all the contributions that have been paid, etc so in the event of an inspection they check things like, the employee is being paid at the correct rate for the job, they haven't exceeded their maximum daily or weekly working hours, they've been paid the correct overtime rate for any working hours over 35 per week, no unauthorised deductions have been made, etc. The start and finish dates that URSSAF has recorded have to be correct, you can't declare one start date to URSSAF and then make a verbal agreement to do something different.. If you started work a week before URSSAF had you recorded as an employee, then technically you were working "on the black" for a week.
I have no idea what's happened here or how it happened, but you may find a bit of background information useful when you start trying to unravel the knot.
Sep 1st 2020, 5:22 pm
#23
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 7
Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Looking at your payslip, as per the link, it would appear that your contract ended part way through a pay period.
Each pay period is based on 35 hrs per week, multiplied by 52 weeks to give the annual salary, divided by 12 because you're paid 12 times a year. So each pay period is for 151.67 hours.
So each salary doesn't necessarily exactly equate to the number of hours you've worked since you received the previous salary, but over the year it works out right.
The way to check if you've been paid correctly overall, is to get all the payslips you've received and add together how many hours you've been paid for (which will be 151.67 per pay period, minus the 39.67 hours that have been deducted from your last payslip, minus any that were deducted from your first payslip). Then get a calendar and count how many actual hours you worked from your first working day to your last working day. The answer to those sums should be very similar if not exactly the same.
Hope that makes sense.
If there's a big difference, you need to phone your company, tell them how many hours you think they've short paid you, and ask them to explain.
I've contacted them but they are blatantly ignoring all emails and voice messages.
I'm not saying they haven't made a mistake, but what I can say is when I worked as a campsite administrator, every month end I had staff lining up to complain that their wages were wrong, and the reason in every case was that they expected to get the same amount every month whereas in fact, because of the way the weekends and their days off fell, they had actually worked several days less in one month than they did the previous month. In your case it's kind of the opposite, you do get paid the same every month but in fact your total hours worked will have been slightly different each month, and at the end of the contract there has to be an adjustment made to ensure that overall, you are paid for the exact hours you worked.
Saying that, unless your contract did end before the end of the pay period 39 hours is quite a lot to be adrift. But you need start by doing the sums to see how many hours you did actually work end to end, because you can't challenge it until you know what the correct figures should be.
Each pay period is based on 35 hrs per week, multiplied by 52 weeks to give the annual salary, divided by 12 because you're paid 12 times a year. So each pay period is for 151.67 hours.
So each salary doesn't necessarily exactly equate to the number of hours you've worked since you received the previous salary, but over the year it works out right.
The way to check if you've been paid correctly overall, is to get all the payslips you've received and add together how many hours you've been paid for (which will be 151.67 per pay period, minus the 39.67 hours that have been deducted from your last payslip, minus any that were deducted from your first payslip). Then get a calendar and count how many actual hours you worked from your first working day to your last working day. The answer to those sums should be very similar if not exactly the same.
Hope that makes sense.
If there's a big difference, you need to phone your company, tell them how many hours you think they've short paid you, and ask them to explain.
I've contacted them but they are blatantly ignoring all emails and voice messages.
I'm not saying they haven't made a mistake, but what I can say is when I worked as a campsite administrator, every month end I had staff lining up to complain that their wages were wrong, and the reason in every case was that they expected to get the same amount every month whereas in fact, because of the way the weekends and their days off fell, they had actually worked several days less in one month than they did the previous month. In your case it's kind of the opposite, you do get paid the same every month but in fact your total hours worked will have been slightly different each month, and at the end of the contract there has to be an adjustment made to ensure that overall, you are paid for the exact hours you worked.
Saying that, unless your contract did end before the end of the pay period 39 hours is quite a lot to be adrift. But you need start by doing the sums to see how many hours you did actually work end to end, because you can't challenge it until you know what the correct figures should be.
Just worked out that that I worked 48hrs, for free in that first week.
Sep 1st 2020, 7:14 pm
#24
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Your hourly rate is 10,08. You've been paid for 112 working hours from start to finish, plus a day and a bit holiday pay which sounds about right, plus there is something about food - I'm guessing you were provided with food as part of your contract but this is a benefit-in-kind in respect therefore it has to be be disclosed on your payslip and included in your gross remuneration, potentially it is taxable.
Sep 2nd 2020, 9:02 am
#25
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Do you have any way of proving to a third party that you worked that week?
Assuming this was always intended to be a temporary job, the employer can be fined for putting you to work with no signed contract. So whether they did it on purpose, taking advantage of the fact that as a foreigner you probably weren't au fait with French labour law, or whether there was a mix up and they don't want to carry the can which I think on balance is probably more likely, I suspect you may end up having to take it to DIRECCTE - but you will need proof.
How exactly did it happen that they asked you to start work before the start date of your contract - did they write to you or email you, or was it agreed face to face and if so, who spoke to you?
Good luck, and the lesson to learn from this is, never ever start work in France on a fixed term contract unless you have it in writing.
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...uche%20(DPAE).
Les contrats suivants doivent obligatoirement être écrits :
- Contrat à durée déterminée (CDD)
- etc
Sep 4th 2020, 4:07 pm
#26
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Joined: Aug 2020
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
It was agreed face to face with both owners via video chat, with my partner beside me.
worth noting they did have a turn over of staff 2 weeks into my working week
worth noting they did have a turn over of staff 2 weeks into my working week
Sep 4th 2020, 4:09 pm
#27
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
This would then work out approximately 280€ a week, paying approximately just under 500€ in tax
Your hourly rate is 10,08. You've been paid for 112 working hours from start to finish, plus a day and a bit holiday pay which sounds about right, plus there is something about food - I'm guessing you were provided with food as part of your contract but this is a benefit-in-kind in respect therefore it has to be be disclosed on your payslip and included in your gross remuneration, potentially it is taxable.
Sep 4th 2020, 6:22 pm
#28
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
It confuses me when you talk about tax. In the UK, tax tends to mean income tax but you paid no income tax. What you paid was your cotisations/NICs/social security contributions, which for 3 weeks were 292€.
So not sure where you get 280€ from. However I don't think there's anything else I can add to what I said previously. Hope you get it sorted.
Sep 5th 2020, 6:28 am
#29
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Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Not sure I follow you. If you received 1 043€ net for 3 weeks I think it works out at more than 280€ a week, no?
It confuses me when you talk about tax. In the UK, tax tends to mean income tax but you paid no income tax. What you paid was your cotisations/NICs/social security contributions, which for 3 weeks were 292€.
So not sure where you get 280€ from. However I don't think there's anything else I can add to what I said previously. Hope you get it sorted.
It confuses me when you talk about tax. In the UK, tax tends to mean income tax but you paid no income tax. What you paid was your cotisations/NICs/social security contributions, which for 3 weeks were 292€.
So not sure where you get 280€ from. However I don't think there's anything else I can add to what I said previously. Hope you get it sorted.
P.S. @ OP - I think we explained that the "just under 500€" didn't correspond either to Income Tax (which you didn't have to pay) or to the employee's social charges (clearly marked), but to the "absence", which is the crux of your issue.
Last edited by dmu; Sep 5th 2020 at 6:35 am.
Sep 12th 2020, 1:27 pm
#30
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Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Chamonix Mont-Blanc
Posts: 69
Re: French wage received with 600€ paid in taxes - confused
Not only the contents of the thread have been confusing, but it seems that FrancophileEU and Bicks are one and the same?
P.S. @ OP - I think we explained that the "just under 500€" didn't correspond either to Income Tax (which you didn't have to pay) or to the employee's social charges (clearly marked), but to the "absence", which is the crux of your issue.
P.S. @ OP - I think we explained that the "just under 500€" didn't correspond either to Income Tax (which you didn't have to pay) or to the employee's social charges (clearly marked), but to the "absence", which is the crux of your issue.
Still unsure what the "absence" actually refers too.
According to this statement - Le salaire étant la contrepartie du travail fourni par le salarié, l'absence injustifiée après un abandon de poste entraîne, en effet, logiquement la suspension de sa rémunération. ... L'employeur peut suspendre le versement des salaires (arrêt de la Chambre sociale de la Cour de cassation du 18 juin 2002.
... the unjustified absence after abandoning a post logically leads to the suspension of his remuneration. ... The employer can suspend the payment of wages,
I did not abandon the post, I was told they could NOT afford to employ me anymore.
