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-   -   French Residency and Healthcare Applications (https://britishexpats.com/forum/france-76/french-residency-healthcare-applications-935652/)

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 7:35 am

French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
Hi,
Would really appreciate constructive advice:
I currently live in the UK but want
to live permanently together with my French girlfriend in her residence.
It may be impossible for us to start living together before 31st December due to the travel restrictions and lockdown.
I have obtained an S1 which I intend to register before that date in order to acquire health cover.
We will sign a cohabitation certificate to enable me to obtain a French residency permit.
My future partner is obtaining utility bills in our joint names and I have set up a bank account in my name.

So....my questions:

Can I be registered for healthcare before arriving in France (with the S1)?

Will the qualifying documents for French Residency-cohabitation certificate and joint bills etc. - be okay to submit with my application after Brexit? Can they be dated after 31st December?

Thanks for any helpful guidance.


EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 8:58 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12933843)
Hi,
Would really appreciate constructive advice:
I currently live in the UK but want
to live permanently together with my French girlfriend in her residence.
It may be impossible for us to start living together before 31st December due to the travel restrictions and lockdown.
I have obtained an S1 which I intend to register before that date in order to acquire health cover.
We will sign a cohabitation certificate to enable me to obtain a French residency permit.
My future partner is obtaining utility bills in our joint names and I have set up a bank account in my name.

So....my questions:

Can I be registered for healthcare before arriving in France (with the S1)?

Will the qualifying documents for French Residency-cohabitation certificate and joint bills etc. - be okay to submit with my application after Brexit? Can they be dated after 31st December?

Thanks for any helpful guidance.

Hi, welcome to the forum :welcome:

However... Comprehensive official guidance has been published. All anyone can add to the official guidance, is speculation. If you've read the guidance you know as much as anyone, and you also have the advantage of knowing all the details of your personal circumstances which we don't, so your speculation is as good as anyone's if not better.

No doubt you have read, as we all have, that one thing you will be asked for is your date of arrival in France. What date are you proposing to give, if in fact you don't get there this year, and knowing that 31st Dec is the cut off date for protection under the WA?

In your position, if I needed to qualify for protection under the WA and the only thing holding me back was lockdown, I think I would simply claim France as my place of residence, travel and be damned.
On the other hand if the way is clear to formalise the relationship, through marriage, where's the fire. You can get a spouse visa and move after Brexit (assuming you can pass a language test if necessary)..

Best of British to you, whatever you decide to do.


G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 9:05 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
I was in that position once, but had the luxury of time and no pressures with the whole Brexit business, so I feel for you. As EuroTrash has said, time is running out, personally I'd declare your girlfriend's residence as your primary, and get over here asap. Once there, I'm sure she would help you sorting out documents, healthcare, banking etc. If you go for it now, remember to hand in your P85 to HMRC first.

Listen Very Carefully Nov 10th 2020 9:06 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
No because you actually need to live in France before you can join the french health system but if the paper work is in place.....
If you do not move before the 31st Dec then you will have to apply for a visa of some type but I am not sure if a "partner" per se of an EU national gives you a helping hand or not Being married certainly does And as an aside there are numerous potential problems such as IHT and inheritance laws living as partners in France Some one with an understading of what visas you may require may be along soon
This site may help a bit https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/...periode-d.html

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 9:28 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
Yes I think you're right LVC, PACS doesn't count for a spouse visa. I went back and changed my previous post.

dmu Nov 10th 2020 9:58 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12933843)
Hi,
Would really appreciate constructive advice:
I currently live in the UK but want
to live permanently together with my French girlfriend in her residence.
It may be impossible for us to start living together before 31st December due to the travel restrictions and lockdown.
I have obtained an S1 which I intend to register before that date in order to acquire health cover.
We will sign a cohabitation certificate to enable me to obtain a French residency permit.
My future partner is obtaining utility bills in our joint names and I have set up a bank account in my name.

So....my questions:

Can I be registered for healthcare before arriving in France (with the S1)?

Will the qualifying documents for French Residency-cohabitation certificate and joint bills etc. - be okay to submit with my application after Brexit? Can they be dated after 31st December?

Thanks for any helpful guidance.

Hi, and welcome to the forum from me, too!
Just to clarify, have you obtained your S1 because you're in receipt of a UK State Pension? If not and you intend to work, then you must research the limitations of its use in France....
Also, don't underestimate the "partner" status - despite cohabitation certificates and utility bills/bank account in your name, you'll be officially considered a completely separate entity from your French girlfriend. France is "partner-unfriendly" - take a look at the "Partner status" thread in the Read-Me: Moving to France FAQs above.
As suggested, come over as soon as travel restrictions are lifted and keep proof of the date of arrival in France. The cohabitation certificate and Utility bills in your name must be dated December 2020 in order to be valid when you apply for residency in 2021.

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 10:10 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12933843)
We will sign a cohabitation certificate to enable me to obtain a French residency permit.
...
Will the qualifying documents for French Residency-cohabitation certificate and joint bills etc. - be okay to submit with my application after Brexit? Can they be dated after 31st December?

Just to add - the fact that you are cohabiting with a French citizen, is not really relevant to you qualifying for protection under the WA. The WA protects you as an individual, by virtue of the fact that you were correctly exercising freedom of movement before the end of transition. Whether you live with a French partner, or an English partner, or no partner at all, has no relevance. All that matters is that you were residing in France and meeting whatever conditions apply to your status. Presumably your status will be inactif/pensioner, so the only conditions you have to meet in addition to proving you were resident would be having health insurance in place and proving sufficient income not to become a burden on the French state.
I think technically what your girlfriend should be providing is an attestation d'hébergement which is a different document, but I guess a déclaration de concubinage would be accepted instead. However, the question still arises as to what date your girlfriend is going to write on it as the date when you moved in. Bear in mind that starting from a minute past midnight on 1st Jan, any Brit who does not hold a CdS or an official receipt for a CdS application, will have their passport stamped on entering or leaving Schengen, so your comings and going will be on record for anyone who wants to check.

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 11:29 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12933894)
Just to add - the fact that you are cohabiting with a French citizen, is not really relevant to you qualifying for protection under the WA. The WA protects you as an individual, by virtue of the fact that you were correctly exercising freedom of movement before the end of transition. Whether you live with a French partner, or an English partner, or no partner at all, has no relevance. All that matters is that you were residing in France and meeting whatever conditions apply to your status. Presumably your status will be inactif/pensioner, so the only conditions you have to meet in addition to proving you were resident would be having health insurance in place and proving sufficient income not to become a burden on the French state.
I think technically what your girlfriend should be providing is an attestation d'hébergement which is a different document, but I guess a déclaration de concubinage would be accepted instead. However, the question still arises as to what date your girlfriend is going to write on it as the date when you moved in. Bear in mind that starting from a minute past midnight on 1st Jan, any Brit who does not hold a CdS or an official receipt for a CdS application, will have their passport stamped on entering or leaving Schengen, so your comings and going will be on record for anyone who wants to check.


Many thanks for all your advice. I think that the message is quite clearly to get over there as soon as possible and complete the applications with appropriate documentation before the end of the year.
I could have gone the pensioner/self sufficiency route but elected to take the cohabitation option as seemed to be the simplest in terms of documentation.

G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 12:01 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
You're welcome and good luck to you!

While I'm here, can I ask what must seem like a really ignorant question. I've never been in possession of a CdS (they won't issuing them when I arrived). Does the WA RP replace the CdS, or by completing WA RP, when you come to get fingerprinted and show your passport, do you get given a CdS, or is the CdS still required and a completely different application to WA RP?


dmu Nov 10th 2020 12:08 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12933924)
Many thanks for all your advice. I think that the message is quite clearly to get over there as soon as possible and complete the applications with appropriate documentation before the end of the year.
I could have gone the pensioner/self sufficiency route but elected to take the cohabitation option as seemed to be the simplest in terms of documentation.

You'll only be applying for Résidence in 2021, after 3 months. As said, before the end of the year you must have the Attestation d'Hébergement (thanks, ET!) signed and dated the day you arrive (corresponding to your proof of arrival in France), and your name must be on the December Utility bill, to justify that you were indeed living here in December 2020.
The pensioner/adequate income route might in fact be less complicated in the long run, it's the usual route taken by new expat retirees. You'd obviously still need the above justifications of domicile and of adequate income when you apply for Résidence, since you aren't legally bound to your French gf.
HTH
P.S. Your French gf may not be aware of all these French quirks applied to potential EU (and non-EU) expats - please make her aware of the urgency that your name must be on the Utility bill by December. When OH passed away, the EdF and Orange took some time to remove his name from the bills and draft new Contracts.

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 12:17 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12933924)
I could have gone the pensioner/self sufficiency route but elected to take the cohabitation option as seemed to be the simplest in terms of documentation.

Fair enough, I must admit I hadn't properly taken in that option. Would it still be the WA RP that you receive or would it be a different one? Not that it matters greatly, I think that whichever CdS you apply for the date you arrived in France is going to be a key factor. Personally I wouldn't be easy in my mind claiming to have arrived on a certain date, knowing that could be disproved.

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 12:52 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by G-J-B (Post 12933935)
While I'm here, can I ask what must seem like a really ignorant question. I've never been in possession of a CdS (they won't issuing them when I arrived). Does the WA RP replace the CdS, or by completing WA RP, when you come to get fingerprinted and show your passport, do you get given a CdS, or is the CdS still required and a completely different application to WA RP?

The WA RP is s specific kind of residence permit. There are loads of different kinds of residence permits, it's not one size fits all. Here is a list of the types that are currently issued, I guess they will add the new WA RP to the list in due course.
Each different CdS will say different things on it, according to what your status is and what rights you have. The one I currently have says on it that it a residence permit for EU citizens, it's permanent, and it's for all professional activities. Presumably the new one will say that it was issued under the Withdrawal Agreement, and that it's permanent. Maybe it will say all professional activities or maybe it won't say that because all WA RPs give you that right automatically.


G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 1:03 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
Thanks EuroTrash, this in part is what has confused me. I appreciate WA RP isn't exactly the same thing, but does it sort of supersede the CdS? I know those who currently have a CdS can make the application more easily. I just wanted to ensure that all I needed to do was complete WA RP and keep an up-to-date passport.

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 2:07 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by G-J-B (Post 12934002)
Thanks EuroTrash, this in part is what has confused me. I appreciate WA RP isn't exactly the same thing, but does it sort of supersede the CdS? I know those who currently have a CdS can make the application more easily. I just wanted to ensure that all I needed to do was complete WA RP and keep an up-to-date passport.

Sorry, I'm still a bit confused what your question is exactly.
A WA RP is EXACTLY the same thing as a CdS. It IS a CdS. CdS's come in lots of different flavours, and the WA RP is simply a new flavour.
The CdS for EU citizens that I currently have, will be no use to me after June because as a Brit, I am no longer an EU citizen. So it will become invalid because it will be the wrong CdS for me to be holding. The correct CdS, for a person with rights under the WA, is the WA RP.
So when you receive your CdS "WA RP", which is a little pink credit-card size thing, you will as you say just need that and your up to date passport. In the time between applying for and receiving your CdS WA RP, ,print of the email you get acknowledging receipt of your application and show that if you cross the French border, to avoid having your passport stamped which will trigger the 90 day countdown.
Does that answer it?

G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 2:39 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
Sorry, I confuse myself sometimes. :D I wasn't sure if WA RP was another CdS to trump all previous CdS's, or whether you need to obtain WA RP to protect certain rights alongside a CdS which everyone (bar myself) seems to already have.
Anyway your answer cleared it all up for me!

I probably won't apply myself until the decree passes and lock down finishes, there doesn't seem any need to rush right this moment in time, although I won't cut it too close to the June end date.
I'm sure there will be a small handful of Brits completely oblivious to WA RP for various reasons - they may not have the internet, or check the various websites, or have British friends who could inform them, even by June 2021. I fear some people who move here before the 31st December will also have problems obtaining all the necessary proof in time, or may have forgotten something on the check list.

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 3:07 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12933946)
Fair enough, I must admit I hadn't properly taken in that option. Would it still be the WA RP that you receive or would it be a different one? Not that it matters greatly, I think that whichever CdS you apply for the date you arrived in France is going to be a key factor. Personally I wouldn't be easy in my mind claiming to have arrived on a certain date, knowing that could be disproved.

Thanks. I believe it will be the WA RP. I intend to arrive in December. Not sure what the document referred to that confirms arrival in France?

dmu Nov 10th 2020 3:24 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12934095)
Thanks. I believe it will be the WA RP. I intend to arrive in December. Not sure what the document referred to that confirms arrival in France?

It depends on how you'll be arriving - Ferry ticket/Eurotunnel ticket/Eurostar ticket/plane ticket, and you can ask for your Passport to be stamped wherever, to give weight...
If you're driving and there are still travel restrictions within France, your gf can give you all the up-to-date info and tell you which Attestation to download. Otherwise we'll be posting as and when on the forum...

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 3:32 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 12934102)
It depends on how you'll be arriving - Ferry ticket/Eurotunnel ticket/Eurostar ticket/plane ticket, and you can ask for your Passport to be stamped wherever, to give weight...

Could be wrong but I thought I'd read somewhere that tickets are not accepted as proof (presumably because you can book a ticket and print it off, and then cancel it or simply not travel).
Bank statements showing transactions in France, maybe?

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 3:57 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by G-J-B (Post 12934084)
Sorry, I confuse myself sometimes. :D I wasn't sure if WA RP was another CdS to trump all previous CdS's, or whether you need to obtain WA RP to protect certain rights alongside a CdS which everyone (bar myself) seems to already have.
Anyway your answer cleared it all up for me!

Glad it's sorted :lol: So basically it's not a case of one CdS trumping another, it's just a case of having the right one for your situation. If you're an Algerian you need the type of CdS that's issued to Algerians. If you're an EU citizen, ditto. If you're a beneficiary of the WA, ditto.
I'm sure you're by no means the only one who hasn't already got a CdS. To be truthful the only reason I got one was because I was about to leave France and I was afraid I would be stuffed and lose all my rights, but I thought if I could wangle a CdS before I left, it might help - and as things have turned out, it's probably saved my bacon.


Originally Posted by G-J-B (Post 12934084)
I probably won't apply myself until the decree passes and lock down finishes, there doesn't seem any need to rush right this moment in time, although I won't cut it too close to the June end date.

If you're not planning on crossing the border any time soon, I see no need to rush either.

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 4:08 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12934108)
Could be wrong but I thought I'd read somewhere that tickets are not accepted as proof (presumably because you can book a ticket and print it off, and then cancel it or simply not travel).
Bank statements showing transactions in France, maybe?

Coming over by plane. Not sure if I can get my passport stamped in order to substantiate arrival. My gf has downloaded all the relevant docs, attestations etc. Bills are being put in joint names and bank account opened. Think I will apply on date of arrival in December after lockdown here.

G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 4:17 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12934116)
Glad it's sorted :lol: So basically it's not a case of one CdS trumping another, it's just a case of having the right one for your situation. If you're an Algerian you need the type of CdS that's issued to Algerians. If you're an EU citizen, ditto. If you're a beneficiary of the WA, ditto.
I'm sure you're by no means the only one who hasn't already got a CdS. To be truthful the only reason I got one was because I was about to leave France and I was afraid I would be stuffed and lose all my rights, but I thought if I could wangle a CdS before I left, it might help - and as things have turned out, it's probably saved my bacon.


If you're not planning on crossing the border any time soon, I see no need to rush either.

Of course, that does make sense, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of what was applicable to me, but I appreciate it's different for others.

I haven't crossed the border for some years now, so no immediate plans thankfully. :)

G-J-B Nov 10th 2020 4:20 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12934124)
Coming over by plane. Not sure if I can get my passport stamped in order to substantiate arrival. My gf has downloaded all the relevant docs, attestations etc. Bills are being put in joint names and bank account opened. Think I will apply on date of arrival in December after lockdown here.

Sounds like you have it in hand. I would get straight onto the things you can't do in the UK, as soon as you arrive. Things are probably different now, but it took me a couple of months to get a bank account opened, but it was a business not a personal one. These days there are many online banking ones that can be quick to open.

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 5:53 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by G-J-B (Post 12934133)
Sounds like you have it in hand. I would get straight onto the things you can't do in the UK, as soon as you arrive. Things are probably different now, but it took me a couple of months to get a bank account opened, but it was a business not a personal one. These days there are many online banking ones that can be quick to open.

Hopefully, I’ve fitted and crossed everything but you never know. The precise date for the healthcare and residency applications is now key. Thanks to you and everyone’s helpful advice.

EuroTrash Nov 10th 2020 6:18 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 
The deadline for the residency application is end of June I think. But your healthcare needs to have started before 31 December. To be safe you could take out private health insurance until your S1 is registered, then you would be in control of the dates.

ronroam Nov 10th 2020 6:38 pm

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12934173)
The deadline for the residency application is end of June I think. But your healthcare needs to have started before 31 December. To be safe you could take out private health insurance until your S1 is registered, then you would be in control of the dates.

Appreciate your advice. I understand that with the S1 then healthcare costs can be back dated to date of registration. Can you recommend a private health insurance provider, though? In UK I already have BUPA.

dmu Nov 11th 2020 7:11 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12934179)
Appreciate your advice. I understand that with the S1 then healthcare costs can be back dated to date of registration. Can you recommend a private health insurance provider, though? In UK I already have BUPA.

Can't help on this question, I've always been in the French S.S. System by dint of working upon arrival.
Potential expats have never come back with feedback as to how they got themselves insured until their Carte Vitale was issued (and yes, until you get your C.V., the Doctor or other medical practitioner will give you brown forms which you send to the CPAM later for reimbursement).
Some one will come along to say whether BUPA insurance would be valid for your applications. But if no one can recommend one of many French Insurance companies to choose from, your gf could google them ("assurance santé privée") and get quotes. Once you're registered with the French S.S., she could also advise you on a Mutuelle (top-up insurance) which is highly advisable, since the S.S. only reimburses about 70% of medical costs, and peanuts for teeth and glasses).
HTH

EuroTrash Nov 11th 2020 7:57 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 12934392)
peanuts for teeth and glasses

:lol:
Sorry - the image of a person with peanuts for teeth made me snort into my coffee.

dmu Nov 11th 2020 8:45 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12934399)
:lol:
Sorry - the image of a person with peanuts for teeth made me snort into my coffee.

:lol: I didn't read it through properly! And glasses of apéro, come to that...

ronroam Nov 11th 2020 9:24 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 12934392)
Can't help on this question, I've always been in the French S.S. System by dint of working upon arrival.
Potential expats have never come back with feedback as to how they got themselves insured until their Carte Vitale was issued (and yes, until you get your C.V., the Doctor or other medical practitioner will give you brown forms which you send to the CPAM later for reimbursement).
Some one will come along to say whether BUPA insurance would be valid for your applications. But if no one can recommend one of many French Insurance companies to choose from, your gf could google them ("assurance santé privée") and get quotes. Once you're registered with the French S.S., she could also advise you on a Mutuelle (top-up insurance) which is highly advisable, since the S.S. only reimburses about 70% of medical costs, and peanuts for teeth and glasses).
HTH

Thanks. My gf is asking her Mutuelle providers for a quote now.

dmu Nov 11th 2020 9:52 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by ronroam (Post 12934419)
Thanks. My gf is asking her Mutuelle providers for a quote now.

... but be aware that you can only take out a Mutuelle when you've got your S.S. number. You wouldn't need one beforehand, as you'd have private insurance which would reimburse you, depending on the options that you choose.

ronroam Nov 11th 2020 10:27 am

Re: French Residency and Healthcare Applications
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 12934429)
... but be aware that you can only take out a Mutuelle when you've got your S.S. number. You wouldn't need one beforehand, as you'd have private insurance which would reimburse you, depending on the options that you choose.

Understand. Thanks.


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